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270 for elk |
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sakomato
Optics Master Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1166 |
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I got first dibs!!
You have any 180 gr Fail Safes I could take off your hands cheaptrick?? (only as a favor to you of course)
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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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I believe they are 180gr. Fail Safes, Sir, and yes you may have them.
Can't be more than 10 or so though....
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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Sakomato- great to see that article posted! I read it in Rifle magazine years ago and found it to be the most comprehensive test of common hunting bullet terminal performance I had ever seen, and haven't run across anything better ever since. I kept the charts for some time, (It was a Centerfold!) but misplaced them and haven't been able to find it again.
I strongly urge everybody reading this thread with any interest in hunting bullet performance to expand that article and read it carefully. I can't imagine how much work went into the testing described in the article.
It really is something!
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Most of the larger gun stores in my area that carries reloading supplies carries them. I've also bought them from Cabelas, and I'm sure the main online shooters' supply outlets has them as well.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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m-i-d-w-a-y didnt have them, they dont even have the fail safes
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Winchester is no longer making the Fail Safe bullet. I was mistaken on XP3 bullet availability; sorry about that. The bullets I bought from Cabelas were the new Nosler E-Tip, not the XP3. I got the two confused since they are so similar. I don't believe the XP3 bullet is available yet as a reloading component, only in factory ammunition. The E-Tip is similar to the XP3 except without the XP3's rear core. It's a solid copper bullet with the plastic tip, basically just like the Tipped TSX without the o.d. grooves.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Bigdaddy0381
MODERATOR Georgia peach Joined: February/27/2007 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 13682 |
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Ted,
How is the E-tip working out? I'm thinking they are being made in 165's for a 30 cal now.
I went and shot saturday morning with some berger 168's and 210's just to see how they would do.I think I have found a new play load.the 165 loved 77gr of H4831sc and the 210's loved 78Gr of H1000. Both had 215mag primer(thanks CT) I took my camera to the range to snap somephotos of the groups and the range Guess what the battery die right before the first pic. But it was a great day shooting. We also shot my brother A-bolt 338win mag.It loved the nosler AB's and we shot for brass with a rem788 .308. it was a good day.
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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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Getting into the fray at a late stage....
My $250 worth.... I decided to go the route of using a premium bullet. The reason being that they are supposed to do their job of killing an animal better then any other bullet. Even their name, Premium Bullet, says so. The economics also makes sense. What is the cost of a $2 bullet in relationship to a $1000 hunt. As stated, the jerky en route costs more.
Ok, calculate into this the cost of developing the load, sighting in etc. Then again sighting in at the hunting venue (most farmers insist on this as they use this to assess not only the rifle accuracy, but also the hunter). So maybe your shooting is a bit off because of pressure with everyone watching and chirping, so you shoot not 2 rounds, but 5.
Then you use 1 bullet on the hunt. That one bullet was actually more like twenty at this stage.
Then the guys all decide to have fun and set up a target for plinking.
So the list goes on. In my case the range arranged for a quick shoot. No I cannot use those expensive rounds, better load something else, re-sight the scope etc.
So, if you have the intentions of only shooting 3 or 4 rounds, the cost of premium bullets never come in to it. For everything else it does. Trust me. The other problem is that they come in boxes of 50 or 100. Now you are 10 rounds short of the 20 you need to take on the hunt. The outlay is now $75 or $150, and not just the $15 for the 10 you are short.
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sakomato
Optics Master Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Houston Status: Offline Points: 1166 |
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You are a gentleman and a scholar, I don't care what these other guys might say about you!
10 is not really enough to mail though. I think I still have about 25 in the box and a whole box of 150's.
I know this thread is about 270's for Elk but I think that the same type of bullet will react much the same in the smaller caliber as it does in the larger 30 caliber. Here is a chart of the wound shapes
Again the Barnes X and the A-Frame look good. The very narrow wound channel of the Partition is where it loses all it's nose and the small base is continuing on (of course that is a 220 gr Partition ). The balloon at the beginning is where the bullet is losing most of it's velocity and is caused by the shock wave energy cause by the high velocity.
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Guns only have 2 enemies, rust and politicians
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I bought some 180 gr. .30 cal. E-Tips, for load development testing for an elk hunt in October but I haven't had a chance to test it yet, so I don't know.
Glad to hear you found some good loads for your .300. Mine is rather finicky, but it shoots loads it likes pretty well.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Wow...I missed this one. Quite a bit of info. Good stuff.
Just one thing to say... .458 Lott. Guaranteed to knock down anything that walks on the planet. |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Mine holds slightly over 1MOA at 300yds. Longest I've tried it so far, but at 200yds, 1.25in 3rnds. I'll match with just about anything up to 300 and would bet that at 400 "it ain't that bad". About as far as I think "effective range" would be, though. After 400, the "small bores" would have an advantage.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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Steelbenz
Optics Jedi Knight ROLL TIDE ROLL Joined: January/03/2006 Location: Heart of Dixie Status: Offline Points: 5153 |
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Squeezer,
A .458 Lott? you gotta call that a Squeezer special come on now!!! That ain't no round for a panty waist!!! For goodness sake just use a bazooka on the poor elk an be done with it!!! |
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"Don't argue with a fool! From a distance you can't really tell who's who!"
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Shot two whitetails with it last season...most awesome KNOCKDOWN I have ever seen. Entrance/exit wounds not that bad, about .5in in and about .75in out, but nothing recognizable as heart and lungs left... just little bits and pieces. I may never use another gun for hunting... (probably will, but really am infatuated with the LOTT).
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Ballistics from the two primary rounds I am using...plenty of reach for 400.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Kickboxer, what rifle is your .458 Lott chambered in? I can't say I've ever talked to anyone before who actually hunted whitetail deer with the .458 Lott, but hey, to each his own. I guess if I had one, I'd have to try it out on local game just for kicks (no pun intended) since I don't believe a trip to Africa is in the cards anytime soon.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Big Squeeze
Optics Master Extraordinaire GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
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Sgt. D
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: February/20/2008 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 4525 |
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Do you load your own for it? or go strictly factory ammo. If you load your own I am confident you can get consistant longer range out of it. But as you probably already know there is a real time/lob factor past about 250yds. It's not in the same class but I deal with a time/lob factor with my 444. With factory ammo it's max range for accuracy is 150yds. Now that I load for it 300yds is very consistant and easy. Years ago before any thought of reloading ever crossed my mind I had a long shot on a 7 point that I had to try. This was also back before I had hardly any understanding of distance vs bullet speed/velocity and such. Anyway I was on a hedge and in a sweet gum tree about 20ft. up overlooking a peanut field to the east and a soy bean field to the west. I'd been watching doe run the beans most of the afternoon and was deciding which two I could get before I left. One last sweep for anything new and finally the 7 pt. was standing broadside across the peanut field looking in my direction. I had crossed the field several times and knew it was 240 steps. The old 444 was zeroed at 125yds. and I hadn't tried to shoot beyond 200 before but that had to change. I took steady aim and held the hairs 10ins. over his back and made myself squeeze. I knew it was going to stomp me good but I was willing. I came to in time to see his rear end disappear into the edge. I set for about tem minutes and then walked over to where I last saw him. There he lay, all four feet straight back and nose straight ahead. I pulled him back to the edge of the field to see where I'd hit him. NO hole! No blood! What gives? After a good ten minutes of poking and searching it occurred to me to check the last thing I saw. His butt. Even then it wasn't obvious, but there it was. The hole was in the hole! I felt terrible but the deed was done. But what was amazing to me after I thought about it. Was evidently he saw the muzzle flash and decided "time to leave" and had time to turn and get into the edge before the round hit him. I'm sure it wasn't that long in actual time but it was my first lesson in respecting a heavy, kinda slow round put to any extended distance. All those years ago and I still have my 444 and even though I am confident that I can hit at 300yds. I am not likely to try it because the target may have walked away before the mail arrives. It's funny you mentioned that you've shot a fox with it. I did also, from that same tree a few weeks later. I had him mounted, but she had to fix him laying down because there was no hid left from his right shoulder to his hip. I had to give her the right leg seperate. Thinking back I'm suprized she bothered, but it was a very good mount.
How heavy a round are you shooting? I once shot a buck at 15yds. with my muzzel loader with a 480gr. maxi ball. It litterally lifted and slammed him into some brush about 2yds. from where he was standing. (I was in a ground blind)
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Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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