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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 17:44
aldribm_123 View Drop Down
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I have an older tang safety Ruger M77, I know, I know, bear with me. It's chambered in 6mm Rem, which in my prior experience has always been a good round. This one is another story. I've been told that with the older Rugers the best way to make them shoot well is to not clean them which I hate to do. The barrel has been floated and the action bedded and still I get near 2" groups at 100. I don't load my own ammo, but have shot every kind made for it. The gun absolutely hates anything under 100gr. Looking for ideas that might help, if there are any. Recently been thinking of cutting the barrel and re-crowning. At this point don't see how it could get much worse. Currently has a 24" barrel. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 17:46
aldribm_123 View Drop Down
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Oh, and has good head space and the throat appears to be in good shape.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 18:02
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 You don't have to cut the barrel back any to just clean up the crown and it shouldn't cost much.
 Never heard the one about not cleaning your barrel! Had a friend who thought his .270 Win(just so happens it was a Ruger M77 also)was shot out cause it wouldn't group and was getting rid of it. It was copper fouled bad(never been cleaned for copper fouling). I got it down to bare metal and started testing all over. Did the trick! Be some place for ya to start.
 
til later
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 18:17
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What you heard about not cleaning the barrel is false.  Having said that, after cleaning, most rifles shoot better groups after you fire a couple of "fouler" shots first because each bullet afterwards encounters the same bore condition until fouling finally builds to the point that accuracy is negatively affected again.  Rugers as a whole don't have a reputation for great accuracy compared to some of their competitors.  However, I do have a couple of M77's that shoot quite well.  While 2" groups isn't anything to celebrate, it isn't exactly horrible either, and it's sufficient for most big game hunting situations, though like you, I wouldn't be satisfied with that performance.  Unfortunately, if you are certain you don't have a bedding problem, your scope mounts and action screws are tight, and you've tried many different types of factory ammo without success, you may just have a bad barrel.  I would also check to make sure both locking lugs are making firm contact when a round is chambered and I would either adjust the trigger to between 2-3 lbs or replace it with an aftermarket trigger.  Recrowning the barrel may help, but if the barrel is a lemon to start with, you may not gain anything.  It's a shame you don't handload, because there's a very good chance you can improve your accuracy considerably by trying different combinations of powders, bullets, and bullet seating depths.

Edited by RifleDude - September/17/2008 at 18:17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 18:38
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

It's a shame you don't handload, because there's a very good chance you can improve your accuracy considerably by trying different combinations of powders, bullets, and bullet seating depths.
 
This....Start handloading, my friend.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 20:34
aldribm_123 View Drop Down
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Everything feels god and firm with a round chambered. How do I go about checking the action screws? Bedding is also good. Any idea what the groove and land diameters are supposed to be? It also seems to be very finicky to the temp of the barrel. It shoots best when really hot. I wouldn't think this with it being a heavy barrel. I read that shortening a barrel can help accuracy. That's why I was thinking of cutting it down a little. I know it sacrifices a little velocity, but it can't get much worse, and also be a little louder. Compared to my 7mm RUM it would still be relatively quite.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 21:33
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

It's a shame you don't handload, because there's a very good chance you can improve your accuracy considerably by trying different combinations of powders, bullets, and bullet seating depths.
 
This....Start handloading, my friend.
handloading solves about 75% of the problems, 20% is solved by the gunsmiths and the other 5% is done by you yourself
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/17/2008 at 22:24
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Originally posted by aldribm_123 aldribm_123 wrote:

I have an older tang safety Ruger M77, I know, I know, bear with me. It's chambered in 6mm Rem, which in my prior experience has always been a good round. This one is another story. I've been told that with the older Rugers the best way to make them shoot well is to not clean them which I hate to do. The barrel has been floated and the action bedded and still I get near 2" groups at 100. I don't load my own ammo, but have shot every kind made for it. The gun absolutely hates anything under 100gr. Looking for ideas that might help, if there are any. Recently been thinking of cutting the barrel and re-crowning. At this point don't see how it could get much worse. Currently has a 24" barrel. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
.................Reloading your own ammo will reduce your group size; better uniformity.
 
Secondly and I will agree that the older Rugers have a bad rep for so-so accuracy and justifyably so. But over the years, Ruger accuracy has steadily improved along with their recent LC6 trigger improvement, which in turn will increase the user`s accuracy. How is your trigger pull? If you have a 4# to 5# pull now, reducing the pull by replacing the trigger, would be a good start to improve your accuracy.
 
I don`t know where this "don`t clean your barrel" BS came from or why and I don`t reco cutting the barrel down,,,yet!
 
Have you had your barrel inspected by a gunsmith using a hi-tech barrel scope?
 
Assuming everything is OK with your barrel (not shot out), your scope is ok, scope mounts are ok, bedding ok, etc., then I suggest you start with a little inexpensive trick, that could very well shrink your groups down.........A barrel de-resonator! Shocked Yep! One of those little rubber goodies that looks like a mini toilet plunger, which slides onto your barrel with the help of some gun oil.  Costs about $20. You can get one via Brownells.
 
All rifle barrels, especially the longer ones, vibrate or resonate as a ballistic-physics fact. The longer the barrel, the more "barrel harmonic resonance" you will have, which will affect the accuracy.
 
Since your barrel has been free-floated, begin by placing the de-resonator on the barrel about 3/4 to 1 1/2" from the muzzle and work it backward toward the stock fore-end in 1" to 2" increments, recording the grouping size at each position along the way using the SAME ammo. You will find an eventual "sweet spot position" for best accuracy, that works best for the de-resonator to do its job and cut down the vibs. To better keep the barrel cooled down, make sure that you take at least 2 to 3 minutes between shots.
 
If your barrel had not been free-floated, the starting point position for the resonator would have been 3/4 to 1 1/2" from the stock`s for-end, then working toward the muzzle, or doing the reverse.
 
Once you find the sweet spot or position for the de-resonator, you will see a big difference using your factory ammo! With my newer Ruger 300 WSM, I do my own reloads AND I use the de-resonator at the same time!...Naughty...............
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2008 at 15:17
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Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

It's a shame you don't handload, because there's a very good chance you can improve your accuracy considerably by trying different combinations of powders, bullets, and bullet seating depths.
 
I also have a 6 mm, but i had better luck. I agree with RifleDude, but there is a caveat:
By the time you try 4 powders, 5 bullet types and weights, and two primer types, and drive to the range to try them, you would have two more problems:
a) you may have gotten addicted to reloading. If you shoot alot, that's ok, because you will save money. If you don't shoot alot already, you will, after you start reloading. That will cause you to spend more time and money. 
b) you may have spent $200 or more on reloading components and tools. With that money, you could just replace the barrel.
 
There are people out there who tried to make a piece a junk shoot like a Tikka and they spent in the process more than it cost them to buy a Tikka. In the end, they still had a piece of junk.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2008 at 16:06
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What about your scope, base, and rings?  What do you have there, are they tight and torqued to proper specs.  Are you sure the scope does not have a problem?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2008 at 18:15
aldribm_123 View Drop Down
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Currently has a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X40 Tactical with Leupold rings. There is no base because its integrated into the receiver. I have had this scope on another rifle just to check to see if it was the problem and it was fine. I've always heard good things about those de-resonators so I'll pick one up the next time I'm somewhere that sells them and try it. If that doesn't help than I will just break down and get a new barrel. This was my first thought, but I wanted to try a few cheaper things before I spent that kind of money on it. It's still a good hunting gun, other than being really heavy, just wanted to try to make a paper punchin' gun out of it as well. Thanks for all the help and info guys. Glad to hear someone has had luck with the Rugers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/18/2008 at 18:42
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Originally posted by aldribm_123 aldribm_123 wrote:

Currently has a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X40 Tactical with Leupold rings. There is no base because its integrated into the receiver. I have had this scope on another rifle just to check to see if it was the problem and it was fine. I've always heard good things about those de-resonators so I'll pick one up the next time I'm somewhere that sells them and try it. If that doesn't help than I will just break down and get a new barrel. This was my first thought, but I wanted to try a few cheaper things before I spent that kind of money on it. It's still a good hunting gun, other than being really heavy, just wanted to try to make a paper punchin' gun out of it as well. Thanks for all the help and info guys. Glad to hear someone has had luck with the Rugers.
...........The de-resonator is certainly a cheaper solution to begin with, especially if it works. If not, keep it and use it for another rifle and replace the barrel.
 
In recent years, Ruger has greatly improved their rifle accuracy, new triggers and innovating it seems, with successful new rifles and ammo concepts every year. I give them credit for that.
 
I did however, replace my trigger with a new one last year. My rifle was one year shy of the LC6 trigger improvement. I had to jump on it though, because Ruger discontinued the 300 and 325 WSMs in the Frontier compacts for patent reasons.
 
I have a good feeling the de-resonator will work for you.
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