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7MM Mag Change

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Chief Sackscratch

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    Posted: April/22/2019 at 14:37
Long story short ended up with a Win 70 in 7mm rem mag that has throat erosion so bad it won't shoot for crap.... going to re-barrel and considering options. 
 
Found this list online -
Long actions with a bolt face .Dia of .540 +/-257 Weatherby
264 Win Mag
270 weatherby Mag
7mm Remington Mag
7mm Weatherby Mag
7 STW
7mm Remington Ultra Mag
300 H & H
300 Winchester Mag
300 Weatherby Mag
300 RUM
303 Brit
8mm Remington Mag
338 Winchester Mag
340 Weatherby Mag
338 RUM
375 H & H
375 Weatherby
375 RUM
416 Remington Mag
458 Winchester Mag
458 Lott
 
Now that's probably not inclusive but good start to my pondering.   .
 
I've always said I wanted a rifle that started with a 4 so it got me pondering lol. 
Could the 7mag action really hold up to the 458 Lott pressures?  or is there a special action needed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 14:56
what is barrel length? Have you considered shortening the barrel and getting rid of the problem area?

Were it me, with that gun, I'd go 458WM or 338WM, but more for "want" than for "need."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 15:04
How about getting real kinky and trying a 300 or 338 Sherman?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 15:08
Would a .416 Rigby fit.  I have always thought that would be a fun caliber to own.    
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

what is barrel length? Have you considered shortening the barrel and getting rid of the problem area?

Were it me, with that gun, I'd go 458WM or 338WM, but more for "want" than for "need."
 
The 458 WM defiantly has cheaper ammo and may be a better fit for this action... don't know....  even a 375 H&H would be a killer round....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 16:09
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Would a .416 Rigby fit.  I have always thought that would be a fun caliber to own.    
 
Not sure,  the 416 Remington did pop up too. which I know they are basically the same round but ammo cost seems cheaper on the Remington for some reason at midway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 19:58
your going to build something different and then are worried about ammo cost???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 20:08
The action should be fine going up to .458 WinMag and the Lott actually creates less pressure than the WInMag.  You should go all out and build a "whale rifle" in .460 Weatherby Magnum (.378 Weatherby Magnum necked up to .458 projectile).  If I did not love my Champlin .378 Weatherby Magnum so much, I would have it converted to .460.  Imagine... a .458 500 grain bullet pushed to 2700 + fps.  Makes my hackles rise...  I've shot a number of Lott rounds with 510 grain RNSP at 2400 fps... quite impressive.  It's what I killed the tree with... 

.460 Weaterby Magnum... it's a dream I have...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 22:25
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

what is barrel length? Have you considered shortening the barrel and getting rid of the problem area?

Were it me, with that gun, I'd go 458WM or 338WM, but more for "want" than for "need."
 
 
learning/teaching moment.... the throat is at the end of the barrel, near the muzzle?  I always assumed it was by the chamber.
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2019 at 22:28
No. Its at the chamber. You cut off some at the chamber end and then rechamber and thread again. Which also makes it shorter. 

Sometimes its called setting it back as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 00:06
First things first...what are you planning to use the rifle for? If you just want something different “just because” (which, by the way, I personally consider a perfectly valid reason for building/acquiring a new rifle)...you might stop and think about this for a bit. Your recent history has shown a pattern of impulse firearms purchases, only to end up trying to sell these purchases only a couple months later. Are you really sure you love the action and stock enough to justify the expense of rebarreling? If you don’t have a strong emotional connection to the basic rifle, then I would sell the whole thing and use the money toward something you really like. If you’re gonna go “semi custom,” why not just go the Full Monty and build a full custom rifle? You don’t have to get in a big hurry; just acquire the components over time and build something uniquely yours. It will be a fun project, you can make every part of it exactly as you want with no compromises, and you will be way more proud of the result. 

If you’re just rebarreling a plain ole factory M70, you will never recoup the cost you have in it. The cost to rebarrel when all is said and done will likely be greater than the resale value of the rifle when finished. The only case where I personally see this as worthwhile is if the rifle has sentimental value - a gift from a family member for example - and you’re absolutely certain you will never sell it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 04:41
375 H&H is longer than the Win Mag / Remington so your action might not be long enough

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 06:22
I'm thinking the 7 STW or 7mm Rem Mag.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 06:35
That would work nicely too...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 08:11
Well said Ted.....   well said indeed!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 09:39
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

First things first...what are you planning to use the rifle for? If you just want something different “just because” (which, by the way, I personally consider a perfectly valid reason for building/acquiring a new rifle)...you might stop and think about this for a bit. Your recent history has shown a pattern of impulse firearms purchases, only to end up trying to sell these purchases only a couple months later. Are you really sure you love the action and stock enough to justify the expense of rebarreling? If you don’t have a strong emotional connection to the basic rifle, then I would sell the whole thing and use the money toward something you really like. If you’re gonna go “semi custom,” why not just go the Full Monty and build a full custom rifle? You don’t have to get in a big hurry; just acquire the components over time and build something uniquely yours. It will be a fun project, you can make every part of it exactly as you want with no compromises, and you will be way more proud of the result. 

If you’re just rebarreling a plain ole factory M70, you will never recoup the cost you have in it. The cost to rebarrel when all is said and done will likely be greater than the resale value of the rifle when finished. The only case where I personally see this as worthwhile is if the rifle has sentimental value - a gift from a family member for example - and you’re absolutely certain you will never sell it.
Always the voice of reason........  but I also hate dumping a rifle I know doesn't shoot on anyone and not many people will pay much for a gun with that known issue.... so its damned if you do and damned if you don't kinda situation.  Sure setting it back is cheaper but not sure if it shot well before or not.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 15:34
On the chambering question...unless you plan to make some trips to Africa or hunt brown bear, I wouldn’t chamber in the heavy thumpers. You won’t shoot it very often, it will be expensive to shoot, and there isn’t a real application/need for the “> .338” bore” cartridges anywhere on the continent. It pains me to say that as someone who enjoys owning way more guns than I can practically use, but it’s the truth. 

A couple decades ago, the cartridge chosen and case capacity meant far more than it does today. Back then, you could either choose a tough bullet or a high BC bullet, but not both at the same time. Today, you no longer have to make those trade offs. Advances in bullet technology have made cartridge selection (within reason) almost irrelevant. Today, a typical mid-power “deer rifle” cartridge will drop anything in North America in its tracks as long as you steer the right bullet to the right place.

My advice: stick with something with either 6.5mm, 7mm, .30, or .338 bore diameter and forget the rest. Those are where you will find the greatest variety and best performing selection of bullets that will do it all. Anything else involves too many compromises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 16:07
What about the 300 PRC?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 17:09
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

I also hate dumping a rifle I know doesn't shoot on anyone and not many people will pay much for a gun with that known issue.... so its damned if you do and damned if you don't kinda situation.  Sure setting it back is cheaper but not sure if it shot well before or not.....

Set the barrel back and try it. You don’t have much to lose. If it shoots great afterward, keep it and bask in the knowledge that you solved the problem without much coin involved. If it shoots so-so, sell it with the knowledge that it just requires a little load development and TLC to reach its potential. If it shoots like crap, then you weren’t out much money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 17:30
You are all forgetting... ".458 Lott... guaranteed to knock down anything that walks on the planet".  
That's all it takes...  

Then... there's .458 Express... "with the .458 Express, I could walk up to the gates of Hell, call out Satan, and come home safely..."

Now that I'm handloading again... .458 Express is definitely within my reach.


Edited by Kickboxer - April/23/2019 at 17:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 18:02
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Today, a typical mid-power “deer rifle” cartridge will drop anything in North America in its tracks as long as you steer the right bullet to the right place.

What do you consider a mid power deer rifle cartridge?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 18:26
Everything from 6.5 Creed/7-08/.308 class to 7 Mag/.300 Mag class. It’s all about the bullet chosen for the specific job, not the vessel said bullet is launched from. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2019 at 20:24
If the bullet is insufficient for the task, then it really does not matter what the MV or ME is... product at the point of impact is going to be too much meat destroyed/lost or wounding that will not have the desired end result... meat on the table ethically taken.  The number one "assumption" is that bullet selection will have been performed such that it is equal to the task at the velocity, range and energy at the point of impact.  (Unfortunately, I am dealing with a situation just like that at work right now... armchair/desktop engineering decisions not based upon real knowledge and experience.  It happens.)  We always hope the "homework" is performed properly prior to execution... unfortunately, often not the case. 
The gun matters... it has to be capable of the the accuracy required for POA/POI delivery... the caliber does matter, based upon the game being hunted... there is a difference in "best calibers" for white-tailed deer or for elk or for "griz"...  certainly one can kill most any game with a .22 given proper bullet placement at the proper distance... but, truthfully, I'd rather shoot a charging Cape Buffalo with a .458 Lott or .460 Weatherby Magnum than with a 30-06 (or even a .375 H&H)... but that's just me.  Hydrostatic shock is real...
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