OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition > Firearms
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 7mm-08  vs .260 Rem
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

7mm-08 vs .260 Rem

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
Tip69 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
Tip Stick

Joined: September/27/2005
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 4155
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2014 at 16:57
I have a aught-Six....  great all-around caliber... can't imagine ever parting with that!  Had a .243 and didn't care much for it.  and Hope to have a 300mag of some sort one day!
 
I think we have powder here in Omaha Wes... you want me to look for you some?
take em!
Back to Top
hydra7 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: January/11/2013
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 97
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hydra7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2014 at 19:23
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

a Ruger eh?   I love their pistols!

nevermind, im slow, i thought you were implying that the hawkeye was a pistolLoco
I have a Ruger Hawkeye all weather stainless in .270 and love it, I have heard from a few that it kicks a little more than some expected but I have not had any unpleasant range or hunting experiences with it. I also have a Ruger SR9c that is very pleasant to shoot and use for my everyday carry.
Give me a shot, I won't disappoint!
Back to Top
Peddler View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: July/04/2012
Location: Oswego,NY
Status: Online
Points: 13532
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2014 at 20:09
My partner shoots a .custom .260 sometimes and last fall he killed a doe at 450 measured yards no b.s., he's a retired NYS Trooper who was also on the SWAT Team and a real shooter. It's one of his favorite rifles.
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.
Back to Top
Rainman View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: August/25/2012
Location: Washington Stat
Status: Offline
Points: 281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rainman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2014 at 20:31
I've owned rifles in both calibers, two in 7mm 08 and a Kimber .260.  Performance wise they are nearly twins.  For hand loaders there is a broader selection of 7mm bullets and the 7mm 08 has the largest selection of commercial ammo available along with a much larger following.  The 6.5 mm ballistic and retained energy advantages start showing up around 500 yards.  If I had my choice between the two calibers in identical rifles I liked I would choose the .260 but that is just my personal preference.  However, either is ideal for hunting medium game in a light weight 20-22" packing rifle and both do an amazing job on coyotes.  Currently my focus has been on 6.5 Grendel in an AR and a re-barreled CZ Carbine.      
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, promoted by mainstream media, which
holds forth that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/29/2014 at 22:23
Originally posted by Rainman Rainman wrote:

The 6.5 mm ballistic and retained energy advantages start showing up around 500 yards. 


Not vs. 7mm, my friend; it's the other way around. 7mm has the edge in drift, drop, and retained energy.
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
Rainman View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: August/25/2012
Location: Washington Stat
Status: Offline
Points: 281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rainman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2014 at 16:43
I hate to admit I'm wrong, however, after a quick check of my Nosler Reloading Guide 6 using the 140 grain Partition with the most accurate load for each cartridge and 200 yard zero out to 500 yards, clearly I am.  No excuses here and I'll verify before posting when it's information rather than opinion.  Another day, something new learned.  I really like both cartridges.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, promoted by mainstream media, which
holds forth that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
Back to Top
Marine24 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: June/07/2010
Location: Monument, CO
Status: Offline
Points: 687
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/30/2014 at 17:18
Hmmm.  I'm going to have to look at the 7mm-08.  I'm a 6.5 fan with both a 260 Rem and a 6.5 BRM.  Sectional density is better on the 6.5mm with typical hunting bullet weights (260 with 140gr bullet @ .287 compared to 7mm-08 with 169gr bullet @ .283).

Difference is in the noise range, particularly with the improved downrange performance of the 7mm-08.  Sectional density only matters if you hit what you are shooting at.

Recoil is supposedly lighter in the 260 Rem as well, but doubt it is noticeable to most shooters and just numbers on paper.

+1 on Southwest for 260 Rem ammo.  They'll reload your brass and bullets @ $0.60 per round (minimum 250 rounds) and good source of match quality ammo but it isn't cheap.
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2014 at 12:15
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Rainman Rainman wrote:

The 6.5 mm ballistic and retained energy advantages start showing up around 500 yards. 


Not vs. 7mm, my friend; it's the other way around. 7mm has the edge in drift, drop, and retained energy.
That's too broad of a statement and is only true with the manipulation of variables such as ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity. Any cartridge built on the same foundational case (.308 Win in this instance) generally will have better drop and drift performance at distance with smaller calibers when directly comparing bullets with similar ballistic coefficients and normal velocities/pressure.

The payoff for the smaller calibers is reduced recoil, but at the price of (slightly) reduced barrel life and that ephemeral quality, knock- down power. The larger calibers generally have better retained energy at distance, but again, this is variable.

The following chart compares normal loads with bullets of Similar BC and Sectional Density and also shows how performance varies with Ballistic Coefficient (260 Rem) and muzzle velocity (.308 Win.)
Ballistics derived from JBM simplified trajectory and recoil figures from Handloads.com recoil calc.

Range   Drop    Drift     Velocity        Energy    Recoil
_______________________________________________
260 Rem HRN 140 gr. BTHP B.C .580 2700 fps mv
1000    -347"   81"    1369 fps     583 ft.-lbs.      12 ft-lbs
----------------------------------------------------------------
260 Rem Lapua Scenar 139 gr B.C .545 2700 fps mv
1000    -341"    79"    1376 fps    584 ft-lbs        12 ft-lbs
----------------------------------------------------------------
260 Rem Sie 140 gr MK BC .521  2700 fps mv
1000     -372"   93"   1270 fps    501 ft-lbs         12 ft- lbs
--------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
7mm-08 HRN 162 gr. SST B.C. .550 2600 fps mv
1000      -362"    92"   1262 fps    573 ft-lbs       14 ft-lbs
-----------------------------------------------------------------
.308 Win Nos 190gr Custom Comp B.C. .530 2500 fps mv
1000     -441"   102"    1182 fps      589 ft-lbs     17 ft-lbs
-----------------------------------------------------------------
.308 Win Nos 190 gr Custom Comp BC .530 2670 fps mv
1000   -379"   93"       1266 fps      676 ft-lbs      18 ft-lbs


Edited by Alan Robertson - May/01/2014 at 12:52
"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2014 at 14:11
Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Rainman Rainman wrote:

The 6.5 mm ballistic and retained energy advantages start showing up around 500 yards. 


Not vs. 7mm, my friend; it's the other way around. 7mm has the edge in drift, drop, and retained energy.
That's too broad of a statement and is only true with the manipulation of variables such as ballistic coefficient and muzzle velocity. Any cartridge built on the same foundational case (.308 Win in this instance) generally will have better drop and drift performance at distance with smaller calibers when directly comparing bullets with similar ballistic coefficients and normal velocities/pressure.



Of course, but "manipulating variables" is exactly what I refer to. That pretty much goes without saying. I'm a reloader, so with either cartridge, I have my pick of any combinations of propellants and bullets available ("if available" these days. Ha!). The question then becomes: What is possible with either? When you consider the full gamut of bullets available for both, and you go beyond 140 grs, which is pretty well where ballistically-efficient 6.5mm ends, 7mm-08 equals or has the edge at LR due solely to BC's in the mid .600's (G1) available in bullets like the 162 A-Max, 168 ABLR. I get that it all depends on which 2 bullets are being compared and at what velocity, but RM stated without qualification that "the 6.5 mm ballistic and retained energy advantages start showing up around 500 yards," and that simply isn't the case when comparing what's possible with both chamberings. I realize the two cartridges are very close and there isn't a delta between the two worth wringing one's hands over. In fact, I'll never see any difference whatsoever in the field. Still, we're talking absolutes here. I understand and agree with your thesis, however.

Bump your 7mm/162 BC up another .075 - .100 and re-run the numbers. We're talking about what's possible with both, after all.


Edited by RifleDude - May/01/2014 at 14:17
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2014 at 16:32
Ted,
All you said is true, especially about 6.5mm topping out around 140 gr. I'm running out of load data for the heavier bullets in both calibers, but will make charts using highest BCs found in each caliber and a healthy dose of interpolating load data from various sources to get velocities. I'll try to max out velocities in each case and give powders that'll get us there. The .284 bullets will have significantly higher BCs, but less muzzle velocity.
Let's see what happens:

Range    Drop     Drift     Velocity     Energy        Recoil (8 lb rifle)

260 Rem  Berger Hybrid 140 gr BC .618 2740 fps mv (AA4350, H4831)
1000    -316       70"    1477 fps     678 ft- lbs      13.1#
 
260 Rem Lapua 144 gr BC .636 2710 fps mv (IMR7828)
1000     -323"    70"    1482 fps     702 ft-lbs       13.2#

7mm-08 Barnes Match Burner 171 gr BC .645  2650 fps  mv (Ramshot Hunter)
1000    -343"    73"     1433 fps     780 ft-lbs       16#

7mm-08 Berger VLD 180 gr BC .659  2600 fps (Ramshot Hunter)
1000    -345     70"     1437 fps      826 ft- lbs     16.7#


The heavy 7mm loads have greater drop, but more retained energy.



"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2014 at 19:10
Ted sez,
"I realize the two cartridges are very close and there isn't a delta between the two worth wringing one's hands over. In fact, I'll never see any difference whatsoever in the field"
______________________________________
That's right! Both are 99% hunting calibers and the previous exercises were basically meaningless, performed just to demonstrate the theorum...

Real world, here are the charts that matter, using very similar bullets/BCs/loads close to max.
MPBR= max point blank range (everyone knows that, right... + 5" above/below line of sight)

260 Rem 140 gr SST @ 2700 fps
7mm-08  160 gr SST @ 2600 fps

Cal  MPBR   Max Ht@yds  MPBR Zero    Energy@MPBR  Recoil 8# rifle)
260   330 yds  154 yds     280 yds        1424 ft-lbs         12 ft- lbs
7mm  320 yds  150 yds     271 yds        1580 ft- lbs        14 ft-lbs

The 260 shoots a bit flatter and the 7mm hits a bit harder.
In perspective, how hard do they hit at respective MPBRs?
Like a .30-30 150 gr @ 60 yds (260) and 35 yds (7mm.)
They'll both do.


"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2014 at 22:43

THEN, there are those of us who tired of and don't want to reload anymore.  Which is the EASIEST to find commercial ammo for???  7mm08 by a long shot.  (long shot... get it???). 

I actually considered a .260 on a couple of occasions, but researched availability of ammo... it wasn't there.  That is the PRIMARY reason I would take a 7mm-08 over .260. 

Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 14569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2014 at 23:00
I agree KB, I went through all of this last year.
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
Back to Top
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20844
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2014 at 07:53
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

I agree KB, I went through all of this last year.

You all don't reload?? I thought you did. 
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2014 at 08:18

Been a LONG time since I loaded ammo... gave my equipment to my next door neighbor when I left Texas for Kalifornia... played with some loading in Kali, but not a lot... just for a certain special rifle.

I keep track of the literature and have considered entering into the process again several times, but always come to my senses.  There is a lot of REALLY GOOD ammo out there on the open market, some of it I could not duplicate no matter how hard I try... plus there are a number of really good custom ammo shops available.  I just have no need at the moment.  Not out of the question, I do go insane every now and then, but not in my color wheel right now...

Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 22287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2014 at 08:36
I thought everybody knew Kb doesn't reload.

Alan, in your data, I see "drift" for the different loads, is that spin drift, drift at a certain wind speed, or something else? Please explain.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
Back to Top
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20844
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2014 at 08:38
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I thought everybody knew Kb doesn't reload.



I missed the memo....
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
Back to Top
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 22287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2014 at 09:33
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I thought everybody knew Kb doesn't reload.



I missed the memo....

Yeah, we've been trying to get him to go down that rabbit hole for a long time, but he won't jump.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2014 at 09:46
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I thought everybody knew Kb doesn't reload.

Alan, in your data, I see "drift" for the different loads, is that spin drift, drift at a certain wind speed, or something else? Please explain.
That's wind drift (in a 10mph wind,) derived from "simplified" JBM.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi


Edited by Alan Robertson - May/02/2014 at 09:54
"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
BeltFed View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar

Joined: February/12/2008
Location: Ky
Status: Offline
Points: 22287
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2014 at 09:52
Originally posted by Alan Robertson Alan Robertson wrote:

Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I thought everybody knew Kb doesn't reload.

Alan, in your data, I see "drift" for the different loads, is that spin drift, drift at a certain wind speed, or something else? Please explain.
That's wind drift (in a 10mph wind,) derived from "simplified" JBM.

Thanks, that's what I was hoping it was.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.174 seconds.