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7mm-08 vs .260 Rem |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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I have a aught-Six.... great all-around caliber... can't imagine ever parting with that! Had a .243 and didn't care much for it. and Hope to have a 300mag of some sort one day!
I think we have powder here in Omaha Wes... you want me to look for you some?
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take em!
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hydra7
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/11/2013 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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Give me a shot, I won't disappoint!
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Peddler
Optics God Joined: July/04/2012 Location: Oswego,NY Status: Online Points: 13532 |
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My partner shoots a .custom .260 sometimes and last fall he killed a doe at 450 measured yards no b.s., he's a retired NYS Trooper who was also on the SWAT Team and a real shooter. It's one of his favorite rifles.
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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.
It is the same when you are stupid. |
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Rainman
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/25/2012 Location: Washington Stat Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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I've owned rifles in both calibers, two in 7mm 08 and a Kimber .260. Performance wise they are nearly twins. For hand loaders there is a broader selection of 7mm bullets and the 7mm 08 has the largest selection of commercial ammo available along with a much larger following. The 6.5 mm ballistic and retained energy advantages start showing up around 500 yards. If I had my choice between the two calibers in identical rifles I liked I would choose the .260 but that is just my personal preference. However, either is ideal for hunting medium game in a light weight 20-22" packing rifle and both do an amazing job on coyotes. Currently my focus has been on 6.5 Grendel in an AR and a re-barreled CZ Carbine.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, promoted by mainstream media, which
holds forth that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Not vs. 7mm, my friend; it's the other way around. 7mm has the edge in drift, drop, and retained energy. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Rainman
Optics Apprentice Joined: August/25/2012 Location: Washington Stat Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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I hate to admit I'm wrong, however, after a quick check of my Nosler Reloading Guide 6 using the 140 grain Partition with the most accurate load for each cartridge and 200 yard zero out to 500 yards, clearly I am. No excuses here and I'll verify before posting when it's information rather than opinion. Another day, something new learned. I really like both cartridges.
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"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, promoted by mainstream media, which
holds forth that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." |
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Marine24
Optics Journeyman Joined: June/07/2010 Location: Monument, CO Status: Offline Points: 687 |
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Hmmm. I'm going to have to look at the 7mm-08. I'm a 6.5 fan with both a 260 Rem and a 6.5 BRM. Sectional density is better on the 6.5mm with typical hunting bullet weights (260 with 140gr bullet @ .287 compared to 7mm-08 with 169gr bullet @ .283).
Difference is in the noise range, particularly with the improved downrange performance of the 7mm-08. Sectional density only matters if you hit what you are shooting at. Recoil is supposedly lighter in the 260 Rem as well, but doubt it is noticeable to most shooters and just numbers on paper. +1 on Southwest for 260 Rem ammo. They'll reload your brass and bullets @ $0.60 per round (minimum 250 rounds) and good source of match quality ammo but it isn't cheap.
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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The payoff for the smaller calibers is reduced recoil, but at the price of (slightly) reduced barrel life and that ephemeral quality, knock- down power. The larger calibers generally have better retained energy at distance, but again, this is variable. The following chart compares normal loads with bullets of Similar BC and Sectional Density and also shows how performance varies with Ballistic Coefficient (260 Rem) and muzzle velocity (.308 Win.) Ballistics derived from JBM simplified trajectory and recoil figures from Handloads.com recoil calc. Range Drop Drift Velocity Energy Recoil _______________________________________________ 260 Rem HRN 140 gr. BTHP B.C .580 2700 fps mv 1000 -347" 81" 1369 fps 583 ft.-lbs. 12 ft-lbs ---------------------------------------------------------------- 260 Rem Lapua Scenar 139 gr B.C .545 2700 fps mv 1000 -341" 79" 1376 fps 584 ft-lbs 12 ft-lbs ---------------------------------------------------------------- 260 Rem Sie 140 gr MK BC .521 2700 fps mv 1000 -372" 93" 1270 fps 501 ft-lbs 12 ft- lbs -------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------- 7mm-08 HRN 162 gr. SST B.C. .550 2600 fps mv 1000 -362" 92" 1262 fps 573 ft-lbs 14 ft-lbs ----------------------------------------------------------------- .308 Win Nos 190gr Custom Comp B.C. .530 2500 fps mv 1000 -441" 102" 1182 fps 589 ft-lbs 17 ft-lbs ----------------------------------------------------------------- .308 Win Nos 190 gr Custom Comp BC .530 2670 fps mv 1000 -379" 93" 1266 fps 676 ft-lbs 18 ft-lbs Edited by Alan Robertson - May/01/2014 at 12:52 |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Of course, but "manipulating variables" is exactly what I refer to. That pretty much goes without saying. I'm a reloader, so with either cartridge, I have my pick of any combinations of propellants and bullets available ("if available" these days. Ha!). The question then becomes: What is possible with either? When you consider the full gamut of bullets available for both, and you go beyond 140 grs, which is pretty well where ballistically-efficient 6.5mm ends, 7mm-08 equals or has the edge at LR due solely to BC's in the mid .600's (G1) available in bullets like the 162 A-Max, 168 ABLR. I get that it all depends on which 2 bullets are being compared and at what velocity, but RM stated without qualification that "the 6.5 mm ballistic and retained energy advantages start showing up around 500 yards," and that simply isn't the case when comparing what's possible with both chamberings. I realize the two cartridges are very close and there isn't a delta between the two worth wringing one's hands over. In fact, I'll never see any difference whatsoever in the field. Still, we're talking absolutes here. I understand and agree with your thesis, however. Bump your 7mm/162 BC up another .075 - .100 and re-run the numbers. We're talking about what's possible with both, after all. Edited by RifleDude - May/01/2014 at 14:17 |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Ted,
All you said is true, especially about 6.5mm topping out around 140 gr. I'm running out of load data for the heavier bullets in both calibers, but will make charts using highest BCs found in each caliber and a healthy dose of interpolating load data from various sources to get velocities. I'll try to max out velocities in each case and give powders that'll get us there. The .284 bullets will have significantly higher BCs, but less muzzle velocity. Let's see what happens: Range Drop Drift Velocity Energy Recoil (8 lb rifle) 260 Rem Berger Hybrid 140 gr BC .618 2740 fps mv (AA4350, H4831) 1000 -316 70" 1477 fps 678 ft- lbs 13.1# 260 Rem Lapua 144 gr BC .636 2710 fps mv (IMR7828) 1000 -323" 70" 1482 fps 702 ft-lbs 13.2# 7mm-08 Barnes Match Burner 171 gr BC .645 2650 fps mv (Ramshot Hunter) 1000 -343" 73" 1433 fps 780 ft-lbs 16# 7mm-08 Berger VLD 180 gr BC .659 2600 fps (Ramshot Hunter) 1000 -345 70" 1437 fps 826 ft- lbs 16.7# The heavy 7mm loads have greater drop, but more retained energy. |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Ted sez,
"I realize the two cartridges are very close and there isn't a delta between the two worth wringing one's hands over. In fact, I'll never see any difference whatsoever in the field" ______________________________________ That's right! Both are 99% hunting calibers and the previous exercises were basically meaningless, performed just to demonstrate the theorum... Real world, here are the charts that matter, using very similar bullets/BCs/loads close to max. MPBR= max point blank range (everyone knows that, right... + 5" above/below line of sight) 260 Rem 140 gr SST @ 2700 fps 7mm-08 160 gr SST @ 2600 fps Cal MPBR Max Ht@yds MPBR Zero Energy@MPBR Recoil 8# rifle) 260 330 yds 154 yds 280 yds 1424 ft-lbs 12 ft- lbs 7mm 320 yds 150 yds 271 yds 1580 ft- lbs 14 ft-lbs The 260 shoots a bit flatter and the 7mm hits a bit harder. In perspective, how hard do they hit at respective MPBRs? Like a .30-30 150 gr @ 60 yds (260) and 35 yds (7mm.) They'll both do. |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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THEN, there are those of us who tired of and don't want to reload anymore. Which is the EASIEST to find commercial ammo for??? 7mm08 by a long shot. (long shot... get it???). I actually considered a .260 on a couple of occasions, but researched availability of ammo... it wasn't there. That is the PRIMARY reason I would take a 7mm-08 over .260. |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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I agree KB, I went through all of this last year.
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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You all don't reload?? I thought you did.
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Been a LONG time since I loaded ammo... gave my equipment to my next door neighbor when I left Texas for Kalifornia... played with some loading in Kali, but not a lot... just for a certain special rifle. I keep track of the literature and have considered entering into the process again several times, but always come to my senses. There is a lot of REALLY GOOD ammo out there on the open market, some of it I could not duplicate no matter how hard I try... plus there are a number of really good custom ammo shops available. I just have no need at the moment. Not out of the question, I do go insane every now and then, but not in my color wheel right now... |
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22287 |
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I thought everybody knew Kb doesn't reload.
Alan, in your data, I see "drift" for the different loads, is that spin drift, drift at a certain wind speed, or something else? Please explain. |
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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cheaptrick
MODERATOR Joined: September/27/2004 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 20844 |
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I missed the memo....
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If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22287 |
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Yeah, we've been trying to get him to go down that rabbit hole for a long time, but he won't jump. |
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi Edited by Alan Robertson - May/02/2014 at 09:54 |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22287 |
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Thanks, that's what I was hoping it was. |
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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