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8x42 vs 10x42 in low light

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2017 at 12:00
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Planning on making a pair of Swarovski SLC my next bino purchase. I'm wondering what the real world low light performance difference is between the 8x and 10x.

My current binocs are meopta meostar hd 8x32. Absolutly perfect bow hunting binos to wear on a harness. At bow ranges i can regularly make out deer at bow ranges at least 20 minutes to a helf hour past legal shooting light. I'm looking at the bigger 42's for use in the truck when scouting and when gun hunting from a box blind. I want something that can make out deer way past legal shooting light at longer distanced. 100+ yards.

So how much better will the SLC be vs my 32mm Meostar and what will be the real world difference between the 10x and 8x.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2017 at 15:12
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go with the 10x for what you want.....

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2017 at 21:57
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10x42 will have the same exit pupil as your 8x32 so they won’t be much brighter all else beimg equal. 8x42 will be brighter in low light. Also consider some 8x56 or 10x56 if you want them real bright.

Meopta hds are impressive. I have some zeiss victory 10x45 and my meopta hd 8x32 compare well. The fact i got the meopta for $530 new is the amazing part.

Edited by supertool73 - December/17/2017 at 22:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/17/2017 at 22:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 09:50
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Technically a 10x42 has an EP of .2 more than an 8x32. Wondering if that makes any real world diffetence. Also wondering if the SLC will be better if all things equal. Basicall will the SLC buy me another 50 - 100 yards over my meopta in the same light.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 10:09
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Higher mag will allow you to see more detail in low light.  So it may indeed help some.  If you could go higher mag and larger objective you would get both benefits. 

Maybe Bill (WJC) will see this post and give us some good facts about this. 

IMO you are not going to gain a lot in image quality over those Meopta's.  They are dang impressive, but there will likely be a little.  I feel like my 10x45 Victory binos are a little bit better in low light.  So hopefully you would see the same with the Swaro's.  But I would not expect huge differences. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 19:02
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The issue for me 10x vs 8x is holding it steady. No problem if you have a stable spot for support. A couple years ago I ordered a 10x 42 Trijicon (Meopta Meapro) HD. Very bright and crisp, however, the stability factor was, as stated, an issue.
Swapped for 8x x 42. A bit brighter and stability not an issue at all.
I should also submit that I was and am accustomed to 8x, therefore a predetermined bias.
Wf

Edited by Whitefire - December/18/2017 at 19:07
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 19:15
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Although too rarely thought of, this is an area in which physiology can trump opto-mechanics. What is the size of the exit pupil? What is the size of your own pupil? What is the level of AR coatings? What type of prisms are being used? How many lenses in the EP? What is the condition of the eye’s receptors? And on and on. So many guests on binocular forums—for the sake of chatting—want to quantify ... everything. Through years of seeing a need (my opinion) to add a spoonful of reality into those conversations, I maintain that many to most of those conversations are as productive as stacking BBs in that when binoculars of similar quality, similar aperture, and similar magnifications (to me, 8 & 10 are similar) are compared, the difference in perceived brightness is often based on aspects OTHER THAN BRIGHTNESS and, in most cases, are below the threshold of recognition of the persons desperately seeking quantification of that which they are unable to quantify.

Further, I know there are those quick to discount my thoughts; I’m so used to that, I will still sleep well, tonight.

Cheers and Merry Christmas,

Bill    



Edited by WJC - December/18/2017 at 19:22
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 19:29
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You should get the Swarovski 8x42 SLC for the reasons you have mentioned.

The SLC 8x42 is brighter than the others mentioned. 

Don't look back, go ahead.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 19:39
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Excellent evaluation Bill, much like reading your book. SLC is a great product, preference and psychology notwithstanding.
Wf
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 19:53
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And that's what it should really come down to—preference. Unless you are a tool geek, you don’t go to the store to buy an electric drill; you go to buy a 3/8” hole in ... whatever. The drill is merely the TOOL that will help you achieve your goal. So many members of binocular forums lose sight of that fact. This is from the guy who has owned THOUSANDS of dollars’ worth of sought-after guitars but had only about 38 cents worth of talent.

Thus, I R qualified.

Bill

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 19:59
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Bill:

Anyone can look through binoculars and has a way to see farther away better.

But with a guitar, we can all look at a guitar, but that does not help us to use it.

Binoculars and guitars are lots of fun, useful and can be collector items.

Think about that for a minute, or less.

Jerry

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 22:30
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The whole 10x shake thing i just don’t have an issue with. I don’t think that is a for sure thing for everyone. This deer hunt i glassed for hours and hours with my 8x and 10x and 12x and did not have shake image issues with any of them.    

For my type of glassing i would pick a full size 10x any day over 8x. The compact 8xs are nice when weight and less space is needed but overall i like 10x best. Spot and stalk hunting they work awesome.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/18/2017 at 22:40
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I would say for scouting purposes the 10x would be marginally better only to bring in more detail/zoom at farther ranges.  That said, the view of an 8x vs 10x really isn't that significant in terms of gender/age/size ID and likely won't make a huge difference in being able to count antler tines all that much either at farther ranges.  10x will be more difficult to hold steady, which doesn't bother some and does bother others.  Only you will know if that will be a problem for you.  Personally I don't think I would bother with an 8x hunting and 10x scouting binocular as they are just too close in performance for me to warrant both.  Now if you were willing to do a 10x rangefinding binocular which adds features not found in your 8x Meoptas which could be useful for scouting or potential trips to the mountains, that might make some more sense to me.  Or I think it would be useful to go to a 12x binocular or more probably what I would do would be to supplement your hunting binoculars with a spotting scope for scouting, which would add quite a bit more magnification.

I wouldn't mind adding a pair of 10x rangefinding binoculars to my 8x Swaro's just for scouting purposes and potential longer range mountain.  That said, I wouldn't want to buy a plain pair of 10x binoculars without the ranging feature.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2017 at 11:02
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So lets say I opened the search to an alpha 10x50 bino. What should I start looking at? Low light performance being the only deciding factor. They all work well enough in broad daylight. I want something to identify the big shadow that enters the food plot after legal light is long gone. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2017 at 12:41
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In a 42mm I would chose the 8x over the 10x every time. Apples to oranges but there is no comparison in low light with my Meopta 10x42 and my Zeiss 7x42. The Zeiss is outstanding and me favorite hunting bino.
So, glad you are looking at a 50mm for 10X. I love Swarovski lenses. My only experience is with 7x42, but would have no problem with the EL. I sure wish they still made their porro glasses, though. They were excellent and reasonable.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2017 at 18:42
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Huge dittos to the porro Swarovski tahqua!
Wf
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2017 at 06:52
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@supertool73 Same here, no shake or fatigue issues using 10x42 EL’s and will pick them 99% of the time hunting mule and blacktail. Love my 7x42 SLC’s but just not enough mag. Low light conditions, again no issues using my 10x binos.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2017 at 10:09
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What are peoples opinion on the Maven? Will they be around 5 years from now? Their B2 has my attention. Just not sure I want to drop EL money on something that will be a secondary binocular. My Meostars will always get the most use. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2017 at 11:28
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A couple of comments:

-When using high magnification binoculars, shake is something you are aware of. Tremorsis something you are not aware off, but it still effects you.

-When asked, about 80% of the binocular users think they can see better with a 10x (I did a few blind tests over the years; frequently with very similar looking 7x42, 8x42 and 10x42 Meoptas, all taped up).

-It is entirely possible that you can hold 10x steadily enough, but it is equally possible that you are not aware of the extent to which the tremor is degrading your view. That and perception bias are singularly responsible for continuously good sales of 10x32 and 10x42 binoculars. 

-One of the reasons I strongly prefer 10x50 over 10x42 is that it is heavier and easy to hold steady.

-Shape makes a difference.  One of the few 10x binoculars I can hold steadily enough is Leica HD-B which has a somewhat unusual shape that fits my hands weirdly well.

-If you are concerned about low light, it is a pretty good rule of thumb to stick with a 5mm or greater exit pupil.  For me, that means 6x32, 8x42 and 10x50 binoculars.  My favourite general purpose configuration is probably 7x42, but increasingly fewer companies make them.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/20/2017 at 13:35
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Originally posted by BigGameBalls BigGameBalls wrote:

What are peoples opinion on the Maven? Will they be around 5 years from now? Their B2 has my attention. Just not sure I want to drop EL money on something that will be a secondary binocular. My Meostars will always get the most use. 


The Maven B2 is the best $2,000 binocular you can buy for $1,000.  As to longevity who knows?  Who knows if the price of the alpha glass will cause sales drop to continue there?  I am not prediction either gloom or success, just who knows who will last?  Maven sells seriously good binoculars.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2017 at 09:29
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Lecia Ultravid HD Plus 10x50? It looks like this can be had for quite a bit less than the Swaro EL
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2017 at 10:29
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I owned a leica rf bino. Optics were amazing. They really had a 3d pop to my eyes, beautiful image
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2017 at 10:33
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It appears you are really trying to over think this. Smile  You have yet to ask about a bad binocular.  The plain truth here is that the optical differences in them are minimal and may well be less than the threshold that human eyes can detect.  It seems to me that people tend to think that the differences that exist are greater than what does occur.  Differences that exist are mainly in how well the binocular fits your face and hands and how enamored you might be in having the security blanket of a big name.  Fit is the big deal.  Brand name satisfaction is a worthy consideration...if you have the discretionary income.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/21/2017 at 10:37
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I agree Steve, I have Zeiss 7x42, my brother Swarovski 7x42 and my brother in law Leica 7x42. The differences are very subtle. 
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