OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition > Shooting
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - A chameleon takes on the carbon dragon...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

A chameleon takes on the carbon dragon...

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6067
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A chameleon takes on the carbon dragon...
    Posted: August/06/2012 at 04:43
I have finally found a product that can slay the carbon dragon!!
 
It is called Bore-tech Chameleon. It supposedly shows 4 different clours depending on the type of fouling. The two I saw was copper (blue) and carbon (black).
 
It comes as a paste. Work the barrel with a patch and the paste. Let stand, then wipe clean with Shooters Choice.
 
For me it worked and the best I have ever used. Cleans down to the metal.
Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 13604
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 07:21
I saw on a couple of websites that the Chameleon comes in a gel. Bore Tech Inc. has other products "C" as well, I may have to try one of these.

I've been using JB Compound in the past which is a paste as well.

Thanks!!
Fish to Live, Live to Hunt
Back to Top
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/07/2009
Location: Benton, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4677
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 09:33
How was your accuracy after you cleaned Wouter? Sounds like you may have to reseason the barrel if you clean it down to the bare metal!
Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken
Back to Top
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6067
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 10:06
Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:

How was your accuracy after you cleaned Wouter? Sounds like you may have to reseason the barrel if you clean it down to the bare metal!
 
Yes, that is a bit of an issue. I was fireforming new cases, so I was not sure if it was the cleaning, fireforming or something else.
The first four rounds went 4inches low and four inches left, not a pretty picture. It came back to normal quickly though and shot normally for the rest of the remaining 46 rounds.
Back to Top
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6067
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 10:07
By the way, I have tried the other boretech products, the copper removal works well, but the carbon remover did squat for me.
Back to Top
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 14410
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 13:05
A lot of rifles shoot better just a tad dirty.  Tactical guys often clean then fire a "spoiler" shot through the barrel and put it up for use.   All I can say is be consistent in what you do and your results will also be consistent.

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12420
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 18:51
I have essentially gone away from copper removal every time I shoot.  If I get all the copper removed, the first few shots are off next time I shoot.

I do remove non-copper fouling quite religiously though.

ILya
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 20245
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 19:13
Wouter... pictures with the cheek piece???  
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
Stevey Ducks View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/03/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 266
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevey Ducks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 15:04
For years I have been using Gun Slick foam with patches and 3 passes through the bore -- 1 to push out the 30 min to 1 hour standing foam that comes out as dark blue/black glop, 2 to lightly oil coat the insides and neutralize the foam, and 3 to dry the insides.
 
Lately I tried ordinary 0W-20 synthetic motor oil and that appeared to remove more carbon as the patches had black streaking.
 
I intend to try the Bore-Tech Chameleon solvent that I hope will speed up the process. My usual routine is to fire 3-5 rounds after cleaning so I can be ready for hunting or just targets. With a 30-1 hour wait for the Gun Slick foam to work time is wasted and sometimes it gets too dark to shoot the last 3-5 rounds.
 
 
 
Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 13604
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 17:39
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

A lot of rifles shoot better just a tad dirty.  Tactical guys often clean then fire a "spoiler" shot through the barrel and put it up for use.   All I can say is be consistent in what you do and your results will also be consistent.


I know this isn't tactical but after cleaning, I'll fire off a couple of rounds to confirm accuracy and then leave as is for the hunting season.  Big Smile
Fish to Live, Live to Hunt
Back to Top
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4835
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 18:57
I've only really gone after copper when breaking in a new barrel. But carbon is important to get out. If enough builds up in the chamber, it can cause some problems in feeding/ejecting cartridges. M-Pro7 works pretty well for carbon removal and it's just as well that it doesn't do Jack S. on copper...avoids the need to shoot a fouler. I also wet a .45 cal bore brush and leave that in my .308 chamber overnight to dissolve the carbon in there. The stuff's pretty much non-toxic and doesn't smell.
 
As mentioned, the only time I really go to town on copper is during barrel break-in. Sweets 7.62 or Wipe-Out have worked well. I'll run a patch on a bore spud one-time/one-way down the barrel with Sweets on it and blacken it with carbon. (I don't like running a carbon-laden patch back to the action). That's followed by a dry patch. Then another patch soaked in solvent, which I'll run back and forth 5-6X and let sit for 5 minutes. Usually, one more dry patch is enough to get the copper wiped out (this is after only 1 round, after all). I only use bore spuds and patches.
Reaction time is a factor...
Back to Top
8shots View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Lord Of The Flies

Joined: March/14/2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 6067
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 02:44
My problem with carbon has been specific to a 6mm Rem AI, which burns enough powder for a moon landing. I have had problems with carbon build-up at the throat. I have tried all the recipes and advise. To date only the Chameleon has done the job with minimum effort and time.
Back to Top
jonoMT View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: November/13/2008
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 4835
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 15:59
Some powders are just dirtier too. I like Reloder 15 for the accuracy I've had, but the other day at the range I just about gave away the last 50 rounds I have loaded with it.
Reaction time is a factor...
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 19:57
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Some powders are just dirtier too. I like Reloder 15 for the accuracy I've had, but the other day at the range I just about gave away the last 50 rounds I have loaded with it.
Was that 5.56? I finally broke down and bought a #Rel15 to load 75/80gr.- had been happy w/H4895... haven't loaded it yet.

jono- I first read your post as: "Some people are just dirtier..." so what if I can barely see the front sight?
"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 12420
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 20:03
I switched to Ramshot TAC in my 223Rem and 308Win primarily because of how little fouling it leaves.

ILya
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 20:07
Carbon will also form a rough patch in the bore over time, which will need scrubbed out. I think it's dependent on where the hot gases cool, but need to go research that. I think David Tubb wrote about the problem.
"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 20:19
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I switched to Ramshot TAC in my 223Rem and 308Win primarily because of how little fouling it leaves.

ILya
I've also discovered TAC and use it for just about all plinking/hunting 5.56 ammo. It's also inexpensive, besides being clean. For some reason, haven't taken time to dial- in any load with it, just load up a bunch and go blast away.

I've been experimenting w/IMR 4198 and 52/53 gr. for 200 yd rapid fire, as the combo has less recoil to get back on target quicker, but it's like snapping twigs running those long logs thru a powder measure. IMR4198 was the first powder I loaded for .223 back in the 70s, but got away from it for years... back where I started.
"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Back to Top
Bigdaddy0381 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Georgia peach

Joined: February/27/2007
Location: Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 13335
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2012 at 09:57
This stuff works great for all fouling. from a 22LR to a 50cal.


P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.

Ecclesiastes 10:2
Back to Top
MZ5 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: July/03/2012
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MZ5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2012 at 10:37
Interesting.  I hadn't read enough about 'Chameleon' to see that it was an abrasive (oh, sorry; _non_-abrasive abrasive Big Grin Wink ).  Sounds like they basically combined the KG/Browning step 2 abrasive with their own Eliminator-style chemical cleaners.  Should be a very effective product!
 
It seems that there must be a LOT of batch variation in many of the newer-tech cleaners, since this is the second report I've read of a BoreTech product not working as well as someone had hoped.  For my part, multiple bottles have worked better than anything else on the market on carbon, possibly excepting the KG/Browning step 1 carbon solvent.  I've used Montana Extreme Copper Creme before on a penny factory, and while it did assault me like WWI chemical warfare, it wasn't very effective on cleaning the bore compared to my Foul Out.  At that time, I was not yet aware of KG or Boretech products, though.
 
The BoreTech C4 and Browning/KG step 1 are the only things I've ever used that CLEANED my M1 Garand's gas piston/op-rod completely clean with little to no scrubbing; just soak and wipe it off.
 
For the 'seasoning' issue, one might want to have a look at Dyna-bore coat.  I've used it on a number of rifles, and it dramatically cuts down on fouling, especially copper, if applied as directed (meaning the bbl has to be borescope-spotlessly clean first).
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.214 seconds.