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AR Build (distance)

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HKtoTikka View Drop Down
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    Posted: October/07/2017 at 14:13
OK, so I have been thinking more and more about putting together a 223 AR for distance shooting.

I have some parts, and some ideas and a list.

I want a 20 inch barrel, so that eliminated Seekins.

I am really liking the FDE color, so i have some hoops to go through here.

First.  Available parts.  I have a PWS 'commando' lower, post-ban I can use.  I also have an A3? flat top upper.  However, to get them cerakoted would be about 160.  There is a local place (Houston) called Cerakoters, strangely enough, that charges 80 for an upper or lower.  However that also puts me at the price I see some Aero Precision blems at on there sale page.  So it seems silly to have them coated, I could save them for a pistol build, and just get the set from Aero.

Then there is option 2.  I have another lower I bought, which is heavier duty build.  from Armitage/SOCOM.  When I put the A3 upper on it, you can see how much thicker it is.
Dont ask me why I chose blue.






Second.  I want to go adjustable gas lock on this.  I want that for tuning to loads, possible suppressor, and wear and tear and accuracy.  That of course entails a light weight BCG, lighter springs, etc.

So here is the list I came up with.  


Rifle Build
    1. LaRue 20" Stealth 1:8 M4 medium (.750) w/ gas tube               260 
    2. Superlative Arms Adjustable Gas Block (.750)                             99
    3. BCM Gunfighter charging handle medium mod 4                         50 
    4. Geissele  SSA-E                                                                          240 
    5. Seekins parts kit                                                                            90  
    6. Faxon Lightweight BCG                                                               249
    7. JP Captured Spring Kit                                                                170
    8. Luth-AR MBA1 stock                                                                   139
Upper/Lower
    1. Aero Precision stripped FDE set                                                  170  
    2. Cerakote my own PWA/whatever                                                160 Cerakoters
    3. Cerakote Diamond/SOCOM Lowe                                                 80
    4. AE Enhanced Upper 12/15                                                            315
    5. Fortis Switch Handguard 12                                                         270    
 
Question.  How does one handle tuning the gas block if their handguard covers it?  Is it easy to adjust through it?  Are some handguards easy on off?  


Any  feedback appreciated. 



Edited by HKtoTikka - October/07/2017 at 21:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2017 at 14:40
I do it with the hand guard off, tune in the block for the load and put the hand guard back on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/07/2017 at 21:45
I would forgo the Luth AR and get a magpul prs. It is 3 times the stock.

also check out Criterion barrels. May say you a few bucks over a LaRue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/08/2017 at 10:53
Possibly stupid question - my speciality, I think - but what do you plan to do with the gun? What do you consider long range? Do you reload?

Will this be a strictly range gun, always from bench or prone, always fair weather?

In most cases, I have a well-defined purpose before a parts list. If this is just a “I want it”, I get that, have done it many times; but if it is a purpose-built gun, knowing the true purpose will help with the directing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/08/2017 at 17:19
I would probably suggest a different chambering.  6.5 Grendel and the related 6mm Turbo are better chamberings for longer ranges.

Beyond that, RC's question is important: will you be doing positional shooting with it? or only bench/prone?  Will this rifle ever be carried?

That will drive the choice of several of the components.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/08/2017 at 21:46
It isnt my intention to use it for mostly target/bench/paper hole punching.  And yeah, there is a whole lot of I want it.

I do not intend to carry it, go hunting with it where I have to hump it.  I was thinking of a suppressor in the future (or I was with SHARE act).  So maybe it could be used for hog killing.  I also want to assemble something tunable as opposed to the ARs I have now (Armalite AR-15 A2/AR-10TC).  

I do understand that .223 isnt the best caliber for long distance, but I would prefer to see what I can do with that caliber.  I intend to reload and have gotten myself a good starting set of equipment and dies, (.308), but my philosophy is to use up my surplus ammo first and increase my shooting ability before I start loading better than I can shoot.  Yes, I do understand I am talking about something with a twist more suitable to heavier .223 rounds than your standard milsurp.

To be honest I havent contemplated other chamberings than .223.  Also, to be honest I really dont know how important that extra 2 inches is between 18 and 20.  I was assuming its some more fps and very helpful at longer range.


Edited by HKtoTikka - October/09/2017 at 21:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/14/2017 at 08:13
I think I will Google pros and cons of other AR calibers..
Also rethinking my distance remarks, because that is what my .308 is for.


Edited by HKtoTikka - October/14/2017 at 11:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/20/2017 at 05:32
OK, after much consideration I have tweaked my requirements and design a bit.
I have gone with 6.5 Grendel and 18" as a length, because it will be carried some.

And because its a different cartridge and should be fun to do something new.And because its an awesome varmint cartridge.

Otherwise here is what I have ended up with
All ordered except the last 3 items

Faxon 18" .750 Nitrided  (mid length)
Monster bolt
Magpul MOE FDE Rifle stock 
JP Lower parts kit
Seekins adjustable gas block                               
BCM Gunfighter charging handle med mod 4
AP Enhanced Upper/MLOK Rail
Sharps Blem NPR BCG
Smith Enterprises Vortex FH                               
Larue MT Trigger
E-Lander Magazines                    
Cerakote my Diamond Lower                                 

I'll wait for Black Friday on Larue, probably Alexander and I need to get my lower coated.

I ordered a bunch of steel case Wolf for barrel polishing/plinking/whatnot

I ordered a bunch of Hornady Black for more serious/case collecting.

I have a set of Seekins low rings/SWFA 3x9 I'll put on it.
I also need to see what happens on Black Friday here.


I still have to make up my mind on the pistol grip.


And I think I am going to change to superlative arms for the gas block.

Edited by HKtoTikka - October/20/2017 at 07:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/20/2017 at 05:39
Side question.

Can anyone identify this pistol grip?  

I like the finger grooves on it.  I found this on the AR15 forums, Variant Builds/Aero Precision M5 308 thread


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cpwomack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/20/2017 at 06:36
Looks like this one:

https://seal6tactical.com/products/jtm-sports-ar15m4-ergonomic-rifle-pistol-grip-finger-grooves-w-storage

JTM Sports pistol grip
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/20/2017 at 07:52
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/20/2017 at 08:11
watch shooting that steel case stuff, can really eat a shell deflector up in a hurry, put a piece of stick on felt over it to protect it if you don't wanna see chips or gouges in it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2017 at 13:05
Good choice on the Grendel.

I am very fond of my Grendel AR and use it for all sorts of stuff.  Had it out at the range for testing a scope a couple of days ago as a matter of fact.

Mine has a BHW barrel (since before they were merged into Columbia Group) and it is shooting weirdly well, considering that it hails to the times when BHW was having some issues.

It is a 18" medium weight barrel, so the whole rifle before optics is around 7lbs.  The scope that is sorta dedicated to it is SWFA 3-9x42, so I think you are making you a good choice there.

I put a 15" Lancer carbon fiber handguard on there since it helped me get the balance back a bit even when using a very lightweight stock.  If I were to do it again, I would probably put a Brigand Arms handguard on.  I am using one on a different AR and it is freakishly light and surprisingly comfortable to hold onto.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xphunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 07:17
HK/Tikka,
How far do you want to shoot this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2017 at 10:44
I figure up to 600 max.

But I am reading its should be good for a bit more, now that might dictate better optics, of course.

I have been spending a bunch of time on the 65Grendel forums.



Edited by HKtoTikka - October/24/2017 at 04:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/25/2017 at 07:16
I have also been contemplating using the SWFA 3x15 HD from the CZ 455 and using it instead of the 3x9?  

I can research that here though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/25/2017 at 09:42
Is the question SWFA 3-15 or SWFA 3-9?

The glass on the 3-9 is a little better.

The turrets on the 3-9 are MUCH better (both are mechanically consistent, both are audible and tactile, the 3-9 resets much simpler and feels more sturdy.)

Obviously, the 3-15 has more magnification.

The 3-9 at 9X is easier to get behind comfortably than the 3-15 at 15X.

The reticle in the 3-15 FFP is not very useful at 3X, the same is not true of the 3-9.

I have both, I use both, I really like both, but they do different things better.  For a pure range gun, the 3-15 works.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/25/2017 at 10:44
Alos the 3-15x is not HD.  It is part of the classic line. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xphunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/25/2017 at 13:07
Originally posted by HKtoTikka HKtoTikka wrote:

I figure up to 600 max.

But I am reading its should be good for a bit more, now that might dictate better optics, of course.

I have been spending a bunch of time on the 65Grendel forums.



What size targets and from what kind of shooting set-up?
Bench, prone, sitting, etc...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/25/2017 at 14:29
My Grendel wears a Sightron SIII 3.5-10 and I love it.  Its nailed a yote' at over 800yrds for me... I am a fan of better glass over more magnification..... I like the 3-9 better than the 3-15 for a workhorse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/25/2017 at 15:40
Ahh, thanks all. I don't know the breakdown bench to field until it happens. Distance shooting will be bench and prone at longer distances, thats the way the range (American Shooting Center) is setup in Houston.

I was thinking the 3x15 was HD. As it is, I'll use the 3x9 HD until it isn't sufficient.

Just thinking. 

 The Superlative Arms GB is finally back in stock at Midway, ordered. I found another coating company in Houston, IA Coatings, who sound solid and will do the lower for 53.

Parts are accumulating.  I'll try and drop off the lower for coating tomorrow.


Edited by HKtoTikka - October/25/2017 at 18:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2017 at 20:50
Update on the parts and some changes/evolution

Here is the build to date:

Rifle Build (New)  6.5 Grendel
  1. Faxon 18" .750 Nitrided  (mid length) 
  2. Monster bolt                                         
  3. Magpul MOE FDE Rifle stock            
  4. Spikes gas tube med. melonite             
  5. JP Lower parts kit no trigger                
  6. A2 Rifle Stock Completion Kit            
  7. BCM Gunfighter CH  mod 4                
  8. AP Enhanced Upper/MLOK HG 15    
  9. Sharps Blem NPR BCG                       
  10. JTM Pistol Grip                                   
  11. Superlative Arms adj gas block           
  12. VG6 Gamma  65  compensator                              
  13. AADMOUNT 30 mm (blem)                 
The bolt and barrel are Faxon group buy on 65Grendel.  I have read some nice things about their barrel and 5R rifling.

I will wait on Larue Black Friday for the trigger.

I also went overboard and paid for a 12" Faxon 65G barrel for a pistol build.

Waiting for some email from Jon on the mount and I ordered a throw lever for the 3x9 SWFA.  I actually ordered the lever and a set of caps before I found the caps I had already ordered for the 3x9 before.
No rubber bands and $20 bills for me...

Getting anal on 2 tone FDE and black, so I will have the mount and lever cerakoted with the lower to contrast with the scope. But I think I have learned that Magpul FDE and Aero Precision FDE are a bit different.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HKtoTikka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2017 at 20:55
Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

My Grendel wears a Sightron SIII 3.5-10 and I love it.  Its nailed a yote' at over 800yrds for me... I am a fan of better glass over more magnification..... I like the 3-9 better than the 3-15 for a workhorse.

At some point, I do need to check out  a Sightron.  There have been lots of recommendations.  What I really need to do is get out and shoot my stuff, but my percussion hobby has taken a bit of a back seat to my brewing hobby with the GF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2017 at 17:04
Timely thread.  I just purchased a 6.5 Grendel AR that hopefully will arrive early next week.  Really didn't need one but don't have an AR in this caliber and it was too good of a deal to pass up.

I'm curious to shoot this alongside my 6.5CM AR and future 224 Valkyrie (hopefully next month).
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