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Lockjaw View Drop Down
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    Posted: January/22/2018 at 09:00
Can someone give me the 411 on the AR10? Aren't there like DPMS and Armalite version lowers?

I am thinking about building one. I'd probably get a PSA lower, and assemble it and get one of their uppers. I have had good success with their uppers. 

I am going to hunt with it. 

Mags, just use the Pmag I am sure. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 09:20
For better or worse, there is no universal platform as exists with the AR15.  Many companies make proprietary uppers/lowers (Sig Sauer, Rock River Arms) and many make uppers/lowers that work with the 2 generic platforms of AR10 (Armalite) and DPMS.

For the record, an "AR10" is an Armalite designation for their 308-based AR, it is not a universal term for all 308 ARs.

Be sure, whichever you get, you stick with it.  You can't mix-n-match nearly as easily as you can with AR15 parts.  I have a few ARs in short action, and no uppers work with any other lower - as each is a different maker/platform.  Yes, poor planning on my part; and don't tell my wife that it could have gone any other way!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 11:46
As a resident of The Palmetto State and one who frequents PSA on occasion, I'd look over some reviews of their .308 offerings before placing purchase.

I have an AR15 upper/lower that I'm mildly amused by, but have read some scathing reports of the EARLY "AR-10" rifles, so there's that. Have not laid hands on one, admittedly.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 12:21
I built myself a 308Win AR, primairly for the experience.  I based mine on DPMS' LR-308 pattern, which is a lot more common than Armalite's AR-10.  Still, there is no "milspec" for the large frame AR, so aprt compatibility can get tricky, as I learned the hard way.

I am probably going to sell mine, simply because now that is done, I sorta lost interest, it shoots fine, but I do not like the handling a whole lot and there is a lot of mass moving around, so it s harder for me to shoot well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lockjaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 12:34
PSA has a "Gen 2" now, and the reviews on those seem to be pretty decent. I have two of their uppers for AR15's, both stainless. The 16in one, a freedom one at that, shoots pretty well. I think I even have their cheap bolt in it also. It has never jammed, and I have shot it more than any AR I have. 

I have also seen a hybrid lower, which uses AR15 parts kits. 

I want it to hunt with, but not if it weighs 10 pounds. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote urbaneruralite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 12:55
Handy hunting weight AR10s are $$$$. If you want .308 powder capacity in an AR15, look at WSSMs. Those are only $$$. 

For $$, there's 6.5 Grendel. It's not .308-class. It's .250 Savage class. It will do for most hunting. You can assemble as light as your pocketbook will allow. I did a sub-7# with 20" barrel for my wife for under $700. The weight includes the scope and everything. The price does not. That was with good quality parts, too.






Edited by urbaneruralite - January/27/2018 at 17:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 13:44
PSA has some good options that don't break the bank.  Getting a upper and lower of the same type (cast, forged or billet) from the same manufacturer takes a lot of uncertainty out of the equation.

I have a few 308 ARs in 308 Win and 6.5CM.  Upper and lowers aren't interchangeable, particularly since they are all billet aluminum.  Seems each manufacturer has taken some artistic license in the design of the lower that affects the fit of anything other than one of their uppers.

Larue's 308 AR Ultimate Upper Kits has "ears" on the upper receiver to mate with their Stealth hand guard which limits your options, but same feature exists with their AR15 upper kits as well.

Some components are agnostic and can be used in either the Armalite AR10 or SR25/DPMS platforms, while others are peculiar to the platform.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 17:54
Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:

PSA has a "Gen 2" now, and the reviews on those seem to be pretty decent. I have two of their uppers for AR15's, both stainless. The 16in one, a freedom one at that, shoots pretty well. I think I even have their cheap bolt in it also. It has never jammed, and I have shot it more than any AR I have. 

I have also seen a hybrid lower, which uses AR15 parts kits. 

I want it to hunt with, but not if it weighs 10 pounds. 

Freedom 16" Middy stainless here too. BCG is ROUGH as a cob, but as you say, it runs. 

    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/22/2018 at 23:30
Weight on the 308 AR is not as bad as they were originally.  My DPMS SASS came in around 12 lbs when I got it about 10 years ago.

My 6.5CM weighs little over 8.5lbs with scope, mount and bipod.  My 308 Win AR is a little less than that.

If weight is a concern you may consider getting in to the 6.5 Grendel.  Good round to hunt with and stick with the AR15 platform.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2018 at 05:20

Not the "final word" on "AR-10s" by any means, but some interesting information:


https://www.pewpewtactical.com/best-ar-10s/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2018 at 06:11
Always thought an AR10 in .243W would be absolutley mustard on shooting foxes at night under the lamp...
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2018 at 15:48
I have and hunt with one I built. To get it light cost some bucks. You might either consider buying one of the lighter off-the-shelf 16" variations. Or, look into a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. I went with the latter on an AR-15 platform build. With 130 gr Berger Hunter Classics it's good on antelope or deer out to 400+ yards and elk @ 200. Other than barrel and mags, you can go all AR-15 parts.

On a somewhat related note, if you have large hands consider the Ergo tactical deluxe grip. It really feels and controls much better for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2018 at 16:56
Originally posted by Marine24 Marine24 wrote:


My 6.5CM weighs little over 8.5lbs with scope, mount and bipod. 


Can you give out your parts and specs on that rifle.  I am at some point going to build a light weight large frame AR.  My creed with scope and all weights in the 12 lb range.  Getting one below 9 all setup would be nice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2018 at 16:58
LockJaw go to Aero precisions website and sign up for their marketing emails.  They have specials several times a week where they put parts on really nice sales.  Sometime up to 30% off.  Over a few months you could buy all the parts to build a whole rifle.  THey have the M5 series that are .308 and 6.5 creed.  They also sell built ones for $1400 to $2000 depending upon how you spec it out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lockjaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2018 at 16:12
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

I have and hunt with one I built. To get it light cost some bucks. You might either consider buying one of the lighter off-the-shelf 16" variations. Or, look into a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. I went with the latter on an AR-15 platform build. With 130 gr Berger Hunter Classics it's good on antelope or deer out to 400+ yards and elk @ 200. Other than barrel and mags, you can go all AR-15 parts.

On a somewhat related note, if you have large hands consider the Ergo tactical deluxe grip. It really feels and controls much better for me.

Did you do Grendel or SPC? I looked at the Grendel option. 

Here is the thing. I have 308's already. I like the 6.5 creedmore. But don't want something that is 22 in barrel. I want it to be more compact. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2018 at 16:38
I built a 18" large frame AR in Creedmoor.  Its pretty sweet.  I built mine to heavy to be used as a hunting gun though, so I stuck a 24" barrel on it and will build a lighter weight one to use with that barrel later. 

Criterion made the barrel I bought for it.  It is extremely accurate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 07:09
Anybody looked at the Don't Purchase Might Suck (DPMS) Gen. II large frame platforms? I kinda think the Recon with it's 16 inch barrel would be a handy hunting rifle if scoped right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 09:25
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Anybody looked at the Don't Purchase Might Suck (DPMS) Gen. II large frame platforms? I kinda think the Recon with it's 16 inch barrel would be a handy hunting rifle if scoped right.

I've had several large frame ARs over the years, and have moved to shorter barrels.  Yes, loss of velocity is a thing, but ease of movement is important too.

I have a Sig716 Patrol (16" tube) that is a great hunting gun.  Yes, it is a bit heavier than a 223, but hits much, MUCH harder.  And when I start thinking the Sig is too heavy for hunting, I use the AIAWM for a bit, then go back to the Sig - and it is suddenly feather-light!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote urbaneruralite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 13:54
I got all excited of the DPMS GII. Had to go buy one. Held it at the store and put it back on the rack. They're just big guns. Not as bulky as an AR10, but still a big gun. AR15s aren't exactly svelte. I'm sure it comes down to personal preference, but that's my .02.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 19:48
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Or, look into a 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. Other than barrel and mags, you can go all AR-15 parts.


...and bolt (bolt only, not carrier).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 20:14
Personally, I never could muster any enthusiasm for the AR10/AR308. It has clumsy handling for my taste compared to AR15. To me, it negates the fun aspects of an AR platform rifle to begin with -- the ability to interchange a nearly endless combination of parts to make something truly unique, in a lighter, handier, more compact package. AR10 doesn't enjoy the Milspec standardization as AR15 parts do, so it suffers from parts compatibility issues if you build your own, and there's a much smaller selection of parts available for it overall vs. AR15. If you don't like 5.56/.223, cartridges like 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCOM give you more than adequate capability for most applications up to medium distances. If I want more power than what those bring to the table, I'm going with a bolt action anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2018 at 21:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2018 at 10:12
Ted,  I think the flaw in your logic is prioritizing the tool over the task.  

That leads to the inevitable discussion of "do you really need...", leading to a thorough review of circumstances.  For me, a large frame AR and its +2-5 pounds over an AR15 is an acceptable penalty for the additional kinetic energy it provides.  I think of the 6.5Grendel vs 6.5Creedmore (or 6.5 vs 308) similar to 308 vs 300WM.  In comparing 308 to 6.5G, the +300FPS in similar bullet class makes enough compelling argument for me to be happy with my AR10.

That said, I am now looking at 6.5G data and might have a 6.5G in my near future.

Where mine will see most use, I can't have animals run, and a bit more insurance is worth the extra effort.  I'd rather haul an extra few pounds around than I would track through very rough country to get to an animal that ran.

For long range shooting on a range, I don't care, I don't shoot those ARs on the range for tight groups.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2018 at 12:16
I prioritize both the tool AND the task. To me, if you want better ballistic capability than the AR15 permits, you're out of AR territory to begin with.

Bolt actions give me the ballistic advantages of any cartridge my heart desires, while giving me greater mag box length latitude to load a wider selection of bullets, far better triggers, better reliability, and don't have the handling qualities of a chainsaw. The only advantage AR10 offers over a bolt action for any non-combat related application is rate of fire and mag capacity, neither is very critical for hunting. The lone exception might be feral pig eradication where there's a large group of them, but I've yet to see the pig that caused a bullet launched from a 6.5G or 6.8 to deflect helplessly off the hide without digging in. 

Kinetic energy is a poor predictor of killing power because it over emphasizes velocity and doesn't take a bullet's terminal performance into consideration. Bullet construction and its effect on rate of expansion and retained mass is what really matters. Given today's bullets, the amount of charcoal behind the bullet is way over-rated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2018 at 12:39
We'll agree to disagree; which, for our generation, did not automatically mean one of us was a racist and/or fascist.

I've long been a "big bullet with moderate speed" over a "tiny bullet moving super fast" - and thus the love of the 45 ACP.  The issue for me comes down to that 2500FPS line where temporary cavitation wounds really make a big difference.  I want a bullet that expends the most energy possible prior to exit and that runs close to 2500FPS at the target.  And that is, at reasonable ranges I encounter, a 308 or the like.

I agree bullet construction goes a very long way (which is a big part of why my 45s stay home most days and a 9mm goes with) but have lots of anecdotal evidence that a bigger bullet well placed is better than a smaller bullet well placed.

Boundary conditions, for my part in this, are hunting applications.  For defensive and offensive weapon deployment on 2-way ranges, I have a very, very different view of ballistics.
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