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barrel twist rate, ar15 ?

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cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Hornady HPBT.  Much cheaper than 77 grain SMK.  You can buy them in 600 round lots for about $50 cheaper than 500 SMKs.  Midway has them on sale right now as well.  http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1165559619

Good deal! Thanks! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2011 at 13:33
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Hornady HPBT.  Much cheaper than 77 grain SMK.  You can buy them in 600 round lots for about $50 cheaper than 500 SMKs.  Midway has them on sale right now as well.  http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=1165559619

Good deal! Thanks! 

I bought a box of those, but have not tried them yet.  My AR likes 77gr SMKs and it seems that the hotter I run them, the better it likes them, so with that bullet I stick to NATO brass and run them at NATO pressures.

It did not like any of the 68, 69 and 75 grain bullets I have tried to date, but for some odd reson it liked the new Hornady 53gr boattail V-Max.  Go figure.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2011 at 15:52
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My BCM middy (1-7) loves the hornady 75's. The 1-7 twist rate will generally keep tighter groups with the heavier bullets, from what i've seen. Now with that being said i've had great results with 223 ultra max 55 grainers. I've got plenty of 5.56 Winchester white box (Korean made) because it's cheap and shoots very well out of my rifle. Now get the exact same ammo made in America and it's horrible, which pains me to say.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2011 at 17:34
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Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

My BCM middy (1-7) loves the hornady 75's. The 1-7 twist rate will generally keep tighter groups with the heavier bullets, from what i've seen. Now with that being said i've had great results with 223 ultra max 55 grainers. I've got plenty of 5.56 Winchester white box (Korean made) because it's cheap and shoots very well out of my rifle. Now get the exact same ammo made in America and it's horrible, which pains me to say.



That's what I'm running, Brother. A Bravo Middy. 
Not sure why in the world I haven't tried the heavier bullets in her. I think that the 75gr. ?? TAP ammo sucked so bad at 100 yards, that I gave up. Terrible, terrible groups with that TAP. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2011 at 20:58
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by shooter07 shooter07 wrote:

My BCM middy (1-7) loves the hornady 75's. The 1-7 twist rate will generally keep tighter groups with the heavier bullets, from what i've seen. Now with that being said i've had great results with 223 ultra max 55 grainers. I've got plenty of 5.56 Winchester white box (Korean made) because it's cheap and shoots very well out of my rifle. Now get the exact same ammo made in America and it's horrible, which pains me to say.



That's what I'm running, Brother. A Bravo Middy. 
Not sure why in the world I haven't tried the heavier bullets in her. I think that the 75gr. ?? TAP ammo sucked so bad at 100 yards, that I gave up. Terrible, terrible groups with that TAP. 
 
I wish i had a crapload of cash to go out and buy about 100 different types 223/556 and really pinpoint which over the counter loads do the best. Big Grin I haven't found anything that will go better than 1MOA consistantly at 100. Being that it's a chrome lined barrel, you sacrifice a little accuracy for barrel life, which can be argued both ways. Personally if i'm shooting MOA or close to that with a "battle" rifle that likely never see's battle, i can't complain to much.
 
I'm currently in the market for a 1-8 twist stainless BCM light model. They've been getting rave reviews. For the craftsmanship and price, you simply cannot beat BCM. And they've got tremendous CS as im sure you know.


Edited by shooter07 - July/09/2011 at 20:59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2011 at 23:08
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The long- range AR shooters around here go with 1:8 or 1:7.5 and the heaviest bullets they can find.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2011 at 08:10
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What powder you using with the 75gr that gives the most accuracy, ST? 

  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2011 at 23:19
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24.5 grains varget in winchester brass.  CCI small rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 00:06
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hey koshkin, how do those 53's do past 300? i've been using 68's on groundhogs, but they make it back to their holes sometimes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 07:16
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

24.5 grains varget in winchester brass.  CCI small rifle.

I was so hoping you'd say Varget! Wink 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 08:38
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Very few ar barrels are target quality, unless you have one installed by  a smith. Combinations of of nato chambers, Wilde, and 223 chambers and the wide variety of combinations of loads gives interesting results. Sometimes blc2 gives better accuracy, than varget, sometimes Tac. Faster twists sometimes shoot 75 amax, sometimes they prefer more tangent ogives and deeper seating. My experience shows that a barrel that likes 68 gr H. match will shoot 69 gr smk, but rarely 75 gr amax . 77 smk  shoot sometimes, but at that cost you can shoot 308. 60 gr vmax seem to have good all around performance, but rarely stellar. currently I have a rra operator nato chambeer that shoots pmc green tip into 1/2 inch. Figure that one out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 08:47
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Getting reliable expansion from 223 is sometimes difficult when using bthp, they are especially dependant on velocity. At longer ranges they tend to pencil through rockchucks, 69 smk being the best in my experience. Usually 50 gr. vmax has worked best for me as the bc of this class is about the same and the extra velocity pays off. Currenty using a Krieger barreled LAR Grizzly target ar with 68 gr H. match, shooting as good as any bolt gun I've had. Hope to test the 24 inch barrel this summer on high country chucks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 09:19
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That is the problem with my 16" AR and the 75s, I am only getting like 2550 velocity.  It is very accurate, but very slow.  But it does not shoot the lighter bullets for crap, so I am kind of stuck with it. 

In the future, I think I am going to stick with the 1-9" twist barrels so I can just run the 55s and 60s.   
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

That is the problem with my 16" AR and the 75s, I am only getting like 2550 velocity.  It is very accurate, but very slow.  But it does not shoot the lighter bullets for crap, so I am kind of stuck with it. 

In the future, I think I am going to stick with the 1-9" twist barrels so I can just run the 55s and 60s.   
Kind of the same conclusion I came to, too.
 
I sat down with some calipers and measured the overall lengths and bearing surfaces of the 77gr SMK and 75gr Horn. bthp. While the SMK was longer and should have better balistic coefficient, the Horn. has a longer bearing surface and should have a little edge on stability and runout in the barrel. The differences don't seem great enough to really make that much of a difference, and maybe there won't be if I can just find that magic load. I know the .30cal. 175 SMK and 178 A-Max have similar performance in one rifle, with a slight edge to the SMK. I'm just hoping to get the same results with the 75 and 77gr pills.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 10:17
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have you tried the 68-69, mine shoots them very well. it shoots the 75's pretty good, and with 24.2 of V and cci 400's, i get about 2700fps.

they both kill the hell out of ground hogs, it guts them, but they make it back to the hole sometimes. so i thought i'd go a bit lighter.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 10:56
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

That is the problem with my 16" AR and the 75s, I am only getting like 2550 velocity.  It is very accurate, but very slow.  But it does not shoot the lighter bullets for crap, so I am kind of stuck with it. 

In the future, I think I am going to stick with the 1-9" twist barrels so I can just run the 55s and 60s.   


Have you checked out the 1-8 twist barrels? I've found some damn good results with a wider range of grain sizes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 10:58
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Originally posted by jjrgr21 jjrgr21 wrote:

have you tried the 68-69, mine shoots them very well. it shoots the 75's pretty good, and with 24.2 of V and cci 400's, i get about 2700fps.

they both kill the hell out of ground hogs, it guts them, but they make it back to the hole sometimes. so i thought i'd go a bit lighter.


Hit them in the head and they won't get back to the hole Wink Easier said then done of course.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 11:15
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Originally posted by jjrgr21 jjrgr21 wrote:

hey koshkin, how do those 53's do past 300? i've been using 68's on groundhogs, but they make it back to their holes sometimes.

So far so good.  I just recently tried that bullet it Hornady's Superformance ammo and it seemed to stay accurate out to 500 yards.  Now, I will try to put some handloads together and see how accurate I can make it.

ILya
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by jjrgr21 jjrgr21 wrote:

hey koshkin, how do those 53's do past 300? i've been using 68's on groundhogs, but they make it back to their holes sometimes.

So far so good.  I just recently tried that bullet it Hornady's Superformance ammo and it seemed to stay accurate out to 500 yards.  Now, I will try to put some handloads together and see how accurate I can make it.

ILya

How accurate is accurate, K?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 13:23
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yeah hitting GH's in the head with 16" ar at 300+. most are juvies so they only give you about 1 second up and 8 down. little bastards

i have some 60 vmax that do real good at 200, but start to peter off past 250

thats why i stuck with the 68/75's
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 13:26
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by jjrgr21 jjrgr21 wrote:

hey koshkin, how do those 53's do past 300? i've been using 68's on groundhogs, but they make it back to their holes sometimes.

So far so good.  I just recently tried that bullet it Hornady's Superformance ammo and it seemed to stay accurate out to 500 yards.  Now, I will try to put some handloads together and see how accurate I can make it.

ILya

How accurate is accurate, K?

That depends.  This particular AR shoots about 0.75 to 0.9 MOA with handloaded 77gr SMKs.  With factory 53gr Vmax it averaged right around 1 to 1.2 MOA.

I think I can tighten the 77gr SMKs a touch down to consistent 0.75 MOA or better and I think I can bring my 53gr handloads down below 1MOA as well.

How far away I can keep that accuracy is not clear, since the range where I shoot usually has a fair amount of wind.  53gr Vmax and 77gr SMKs seem to have about the same wind drift out to 500 yards or so, which is about all I want out of a 223 under normal circumstances.

My other AR is chambered for 6.5Grendel and is showing much better accuracy potential.  With 123gr SMKs it averages in the 0.5 - 0.7 MOA range. It may be capable of doing better, but I do not think I am capable of shooting that well with any consistency.

ILya
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if the 53 and 77 have similar WD out to 500 thats crazy good.

i found that i get better groups with cci400 than with remington BR primers. with the 60 vmax it was a huge difference, around 2" better with the 400's
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 15:56
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Originally posted by jjrgr21 jjrgr21 wrote:

if the 53 and 77 have similar WD out to 500 thats crazy good.

i found that i get better groups with cci400 than with remington BR primers. with the 60 vmax it was a huge difference, around 2" better with the 400's

53gr V-max have pretty sleek profile.  Hornady lists their BC as higher than both 55gr and 60gr Vmaxes.

Since they start out quite a bit faster than 77 grainers, it is not surprising that out to 500 yards they still buck wind petty well.  Beyond that a heavier bullet would do better.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/11/2011 at 16:02
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i'll pick some up start working on them
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/27/2011 at 16:19
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I have a RockRiver predator pursuit 1/8 that shoots everything Ive put thru it well, anywhere from 45gt to 77gr  guess I got a good one.
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