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Berger VLD hunting

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2017 at 15:34
Lockjaw View Drop Down
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Has anyone used these? I was thinking about trying some for my 308. 

They supposedly penetrate 3 to 4 inches and then fragment. Results in massive internal organ damage, and dropping in tracks or not going far at all. 

The videos I have seen on youtube of it in gel even through a shoulder look like its what I want. 

Just wondering if anyone has shot any of them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2017 at 16:55
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I use them in all my rifles. No trouble yet with them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2017 at 19:19
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Yes, have used on varmint, pigs, and deer. They are very accurate, mimicking hybrids well, and they do fragment and go everywhere. The upside is they fragment and go everywhere, the downside is they fragment and go everywhere.

I run Amax too, they mostly stay intact and leave massive wound channels. Hunters have far more wound channels of significantly lesser severity. But more of them.

I've had animals drop to both, and run from both. Shot placement is paramount.

Or step up to a 300WM for a bit more insurance and forgiveness.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2017 at 19:52
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We tried these in STW's a few years ago and they didn't work very well, Run offs and unrecoved deer,I can't say what they will do in the 308 but I personally don't care for them with that being said I know folks that swear by them
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2017 at 21:04
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I have used Berger Hunting (both VLD and classic) bullets to kill mule deer, antelope, and elk.  I have had zero failures.  They have been remarkably consistent in terminal performance for me.  They would penetrate a couple of inches and detonate.  A small base portion would then often exit.

The Classic Hunters were very easy to tune for accuracy as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2017 at 14:55
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I don't want to use a magnum, I don't need it here. If i needed to make a long shot, I could just use my 270 and leave it alone. 

I don't like the really long barrels either. My main 308 is the Remmy 700 Tac SSD. Thats about as big as I want. 

I am looking for something that does like the berger or partition. The prob with partition is the BC is lower than I would like. I bought some Federal Ammo for a 308 with a partition, but haven't shot it yet to see how it shoots. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2017 at 15:20
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Have you looked at the Hornady ELD X?  I don't have any personal experience on game yet, but they are getting good reviews by others on game. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2017 at 19:00
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Originally posted by Lockjaw Lockjaw wrote:



I am looking for something that does like the berger or partition. The prob with partition is the BC is lower than I would like.


The Berger and the Partition are 2 very different bullets.  They do not have similar terminal results at all.  The Berger is a bullet that comes apart, often does not exit and can ruin a lot of meat.  The Partition retains ~70% of it's weight, often exits and does not ruin as much meat.

If you want a better BC and better accuracy in a bullet that is engineered to be similar to the Partition then you need to investigate the Accubond

Quoting from NRA's American Rifleman from their May, 2004 issue:
"While other bulletmakers tout 90 percent weight retention from their bonded bullets, Nosler took a different approach. Its goal is deeper penetration, even at the sacrifice of weight retention. The problem with bonded bullets that are designed for high weight retention is that they quickly form a large frontal area that impedes penetration. Nosler designed its bullet to have about 60 to 70 percent weight retention. That obviously means that it will lose some weight. That's because it's designed to shed some of the expanded bullet material to keep the frontal area of the Accubond bullet a little smaller than some other bonded bullets. Accubond is designed for early expansion, but rather than tear completely apart as a Ballistic Tip often will, the Accubond's petals are designed to fold back tighter against the bullet shank. This makes a slightly smaller diameter mushroom to allow deeper penetration."

The Accubonds are designed to be a higher BC substitution for the Partition which has decades of excellent terminal results.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/24/2017 at 19:42
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I know lots of hunters really like the VLDH bullets, but I'm not one of them.  I've taken a grand total of 1 mature whitetail deer with the 168VLD H/7mag combo, 3030fps at the muzzle, impact distance just over 100 yards.  It looked like a hand grenade went off on that buck, and yes, he was dead right there.

Not allowed according to rules you are required to acknowledge prior to becoming a member of the Optics Talk Forum:

"Extreme gore / “blood & guts.”  This applies to hunting images as well.  Only respectful "Hero Shots" of harvested game can be posted.  Pictures of bloody game, game hanging, or game in the bed of a pick-up truck are not respectful to the game animal and portray a negative image of ethical hunting."





I've also taken a few dozen hogs with that same combo at distances of 75 to 300 yards or so.  I have intentionally tried to stay off of bone with these bullets, and every hog has run off at least 100 yards into plum thickets or other nasty cover and died, with zero blood trail.  Had I not seen where they went I would have never recovered over half of them.

For these reasons I'm not currently a huge fan.  I'll stick to ballistic tips, partitions and accubonds I think  


Edited by Kickboxer - January/25/2017 at 04:47
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2017 at 13:03
Lockjaw View Drop Down
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I personally like how the ballistic tips do, at least the ones in the first batch of Winchester Supreme 7-08 ammo I had. The second box I didn't get as good a result. First box, many many DRT deer. Second box, many many run off and hide deer. Same kind of shot, double lung. 

I have some 120 grain BT's loaded light for my 7-08, and the one deer I shot with one, it blew its whole brisket off. How it managed to walk away was beyond me. 

Usually the ST would shed the jacket. First box would exit and leave a 6 to 8 foot swath of blood, tissue and hair. Internal damage was massive, with no appreciable meat loss. Second box, entrance hard to find, exit, a small hole. Deer running off. 

So I want a bullet that when it exits, it makes a big hole. And I want a ton of damage as it goes though. Meat damage is better than no meat from a lost animal. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2017 at 17:20
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Federal's 140gr Ballistic Tip load will probably do what you want. For deer a softer, none too fancy bullet with sectional density of ~0.25 or better has always worked well for me over a variety of cartridges. I like SSTs, Interlocks and HotCors. It's not a bad idea to pin a rutting buck through the shoulders.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2017 at 12:26
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I am going to aim high in the shoulder, that is what one of the old timers told me to do at my club. He says double lung is a 75% or so shot. Yes it will kill them, but will you find them? 

A 150 grain SST out of my 308 Rem tac model did a number on a deer. Peeled hide off the exit side. That is what I need. HAHA

Wish I could shoot one out of my 30-30. I guess I could, the first one. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2017 at 12:28
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Try the lever evolution ammo in your 30-30.  It turns those old lever guns into a whole different animal. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2017 at 09:42
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That is what I have in it. Sighted dead on at 35 yards. I plugged it into Nikons ballistic program and reduced the velocity to 2200 fps. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2017 at 11:24
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I used to use Accubonds. But one thing that really bothered me was Nosler's inaccurate, possibly inflated BC. I bought Bryan Litz' book and found that his measured BC of the Accubond was far more accurate. I adjusted it from .227 (his G7 measurement) to .226 and then got shots that actually matched the ballistics trajectories JBM and my own Ballistica program were calculating.

That was before Litz went to work for Berger. But I have no reason to doubt his or their published claims. For the last four seasons I've used Berger 168 gr. Classic Hunters for elk and deer hunting. Seated at mag length they shoot well from all my .308s (semi-auto AR and two bolt actions). Terminal performance is good to great (better at longer distances). I've recovered two bullets in cow elk (inside opposite shoulder blades)with minimal disintegration and good expansion. With deer they pass through.

I'm actually going to try the 150 gr. Badlands Precision Bulldozers next season based on their terminal performance while still having the ability to seat at mag length and with the same BC as the 168 gr. Berger CH. But if you want a no-tuning necessary handloading experience, the CH is a good deal.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2017 at 17:53
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Lock Jaw, take a look at the YouTube video "Badlands 150 Bulldozer vs Blue Wildebeest" to see how the 150 gr Bulldozer bullet works out of a 20 inch 308 Winchester. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2017 at 20:00
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Leverevolution works great in the 308 Win as well.
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