OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Firearms, Bows, and Ammunition > Reloading & Ballistics
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bergers in a detachable magazine?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Bergers in a detachable magazine?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bergers in a detachable magazine?
    Posted: May/16/2009 at 10:40
I'd like to try some 140 or 150 VLD's in my Tikka .270WSM but have heard that the VLD's don't fit in some detachable magazines. 
I figured I'd ask if anyone has tried them yet before I drop the money on a whole box of bullets.  I'd hate like heck to find out they won't fit and wind up with a box of useless copper coated lead.
 
Back to Top
rifle looney View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: November/21/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2553
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 10:50
A bullet is a bullet as long as you don't exceed the allowable space in which it fits in the magazine you will be fine. seating depth is the key.
Back to Top
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 10:58
Yeah, I was just concerned with the "jump" to the ogive.  I know those suckers have some really long noses.
Back to Top
silver View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


Joined: November/04/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2291
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 11:18
I'd be more concerned with setting depth issues.
"If we weren't all crazy we, We would go insane."   Jimmie Buffet

WWW.formitch.com

Back to Top
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 12:39
Originally posted by silver silver wrote:

I'd be more concerned with setting depth issues.
 
 
That's basically what I was talking about.  Are ya referring to not having enough room for the powder?
Back to Top
rifle looney View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: November/21/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2553
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 13:14
these bullets aren't much longer than those of Hornady's or Barnes unless you are using MAX loads with powders that fill to capacity there should be no concerns. though you generally get better results from such said loads it dos not always hold true, just experiment a little and if you find they are not to your liking I bet you could get rid of them very easily!

ps. these bullets do have long noses but the ogive is way back. long noses contact nothing but the magazine.


Edited by rifle looney - May/16/2009 at 13:16
Back to Top
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 17:01
Originally posted by rifle looney rifle looney wrote:

these bullets aren't much longer than those of Hornady's or Barnes unless you are using MAX loads with powders that fill to capacity there should be no concerns. though you generally get better results from such said loads it dos not always hold true, just experiment a little and if you find they are not to your liking I bet you could get rid of them very easily!

ps. these bullets do have long noses but the ogive is way back. long noses contact nothing but the magazine.
 
Looney,
 
I'll probably stick with Reloader 19, as I've had great luck with it in this rifle.  Do you know how close the case would be to full with a load approaching max grains?
It's really only the contact with the magazine that concerns me for now.  The mag is plastic and I can shave a little bit off the inside of it if I need to; just don't know if that'll be enough. Whacko
 
Thanks.
Back to Top
rifle looney View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: November/21/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 2553
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rifle looney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 17:09
I don't have an answer for that but if you can get or ask the new Nosler reloading manual will list that as case capacity volume. I only have manual # 4 and it has no short mags listed and as far as taking material from the magazine this is done a lot on different applications where there is enough to remove and it wont be all that much but it could make the difference. I have done this on my 300 mag and it help my situation.
Back to Top
Big Squeeze View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
GOOGLE NINJA

Joined: August/30/2007
Location: Anaheim, Calif.
Status: Offline
Points: 3143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 18:15
Originally posted by huff143 huff143 wrote:

I'd like to try some 140 or 150 VLD's in my Tikka .270WSM but have heard that the VLD's don't fit in some detachable magazines. 
I figured I'd ask if anyone has tried them yet before I drop the money on a whole box of bullets.  I'd hate like heck to find out they won't fit and wind up with a box of useless copper coated lead.
 
........... In your case, you begin to seat them to the maximum allowable COAL your detachable magazine will allow while still enabling you to cycle the bolt effectively. You should also experiment with different powders, seating depths and hope for the best.
 
My Ruger 300 WSM magazine`s (a non-detachable magazine) max length is 2.920." The 270 WSM has the same COAL as the 300 WSM. Without touching the rifling, my COAL using the hunting VLDs is 2.900" or less depending on the bullet weight I`m using. For range use only, I could seat them out a little further.
 
If you don`t buy the bullets and try some, you`ll never know!
 
If you are able to find your rifle`s sweet spot for seating depth, the VLDs are an extremely accurate, flat flying bullet, and a devastating bullet on game.
 
Back to Top
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 19:12
This is all good advice.  Thanks much!
I think I'll proceed with the 150 VLDs and see what happens.
Back to Top
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 19:27

My data from berger shows:

 62.6gr. max for 130 gr.  97.9% load density
61.1gr. max for 140gr.    96.4% load density
60.0gr. max for 150gr.     94.6% load density
for RL-19 With OAL of 2.860
(I think that stands for Rifle Looney #19Bucky)
 
I would fill a case with a max load, and see how full it is. I'm betting that a Berger that will clear the magazine will be seated down close to the bottom of the shoulder. I never tried them in my .270 WSM, but am running them in a .300 Wby, and tried Hornady SST's in my WSM, and they are long too. I never had any trouble getting them to work with IMR 7828. I would bet that they'll work for you.


Edited by trigger29 - May/16/2009 at 19:33

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Back to Top
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 19:38
Thanks for the numbers, Trigger. 
I'll go ahead and get a box of them and try one.  As long as it fits, I'll send a couple of fired brass and a test bullet to Lee to have a collet made just for it to size the necks.  Then, load some and go boom-boom!
Back to Top
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 19:52
Any time man. I hope they work out for you. I've taken them up for my longer range work with my .300. Unfortunately they shoot so well, that I shoot them for the short range stuff too. That's too badCool.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Back to Top
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22034
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2009 at 20:43
the only thing is though trigger, is that you have a weatherby chambering with a long throat, so you have some room to play where the op may not
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
Back to Top
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2009 at 01:40
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

the only thing is though trigger, is that you have a weatherby chambering with a long throat, so you have some room to play where the op may not
 
 
If my mind serves me right, the factory listed COAL for a .270WSM is 2.860".  My loads with 140gr Sierra GameKings measure 2.920".  Last weekend it punched a three-shot group of 0.326" @ 100yds.  But, I want to try the other bullets to see how it'll do in the wind at much greater distances.
I suppose my point here is that my Tikka likes long loads, so I'm guessing there will be plenty of room in the throat for the VLD's?
 


Edited by huff143 - May/17/2009 at 01:42
Back to Top
pyro6999 View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
OT TITAN

Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22034
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2009 at 10:18
while thats all good and well im guessing that the bergers will push you past 3.000" coal, at some point you will run out of room, those berger bullets will be longer than the gamekings are for sure. i take it you are interested in loading more than one at a time into the rifle?
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
Back to Top
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2009 at 12:49
If he's not trying to load to the lands, he will probably be fine. The info that I gave was from my .270 Wsm, not my Weatherby chambering. My WSM had a long enough magazine to load long bullets and still have plenty of room for powder. I used much slower powder in mine, and never had a problem. You will never get the velocity out of a 150 gr. Berger that the ammo companies claim they get with a 150 though. According to my chrono though, they don't get that velocity either.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Back to Top
huff143 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: December/08/2008
Location: Kansas City
Status: Offline
Points: 304
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote huff143 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2009 at 14:19
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

while thats all good and well im guessing that the bergers will push you past 3.000" coal, at some point you will run out of room, those berger bullets will be longer than the gamekings are for sure. i take it you are interested in loading more than one at a time into the rifle?
 
This is a hunting rifle, so yes, the magazine is a must. 
 
I've heard some rifles shooting these bullets like a lot of jump before they get into the rifling.  Anybody else heard this?
Back to Top
Big Squeeze View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
GOOGLE NINJA

Joined: August/30/2007
Location: Anaheim, Calif.
Status: Offline
Points: 3143
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2009 at 20:01
Originally posted by huff143 huff143 wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

while thats all good and well im guessing that the bergers will push you past 3.000" coal, at some point you will run out of room, those berger bullets will be longer than the gamekings are for sure. i take it you are interested in loading more than one at a time into the rifle?
 
This is a hunting rifle, so yes, the magazine is a must. 
 
I've heard some rifles shooting these bullets like a lot of jump before they get into the rifling.  Anybody else heard this?
..............Yes and no!! The amount of bullet jump (for best accuracy) using the Bergers, will depend on what YOUR rifle or any individual rifle prefers.
 
Berger will tell you to try various seating depths for best accuracy. However for hunting loads, start first with the maximum COAL length that your magazine can handle while cycling the bolt effectively and work down in length from there to see which delivers the best accuracy.
 
 
 
Back to Top
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2009 at 22:24
I would start at magazine length, and back them up in .015-.020 increments and see which shoots best. Try them with a couple powders, and charges. Something will shoot good, then you can tweak from there.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.164 seconds.