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Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2009 at 23:42
Ive looked at the Ruger 375 stainless with hogue rubber stock several times and I really like it.  Hard to find a rifle with iron sights any more.  Nice length handy thing.  How hard is it to find brass I know some calibers are virtually impossible like .45 long colt and .308

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2009 at 23:43
Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

That would be a Beretta Mato.

 

Best production rifle ever made so naturally they discontinued it!!  Whatever


Sometimes I have to wonder about the braintrust at Beretta.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2009 at 23:43
So Julio what is the name of that guy that does stocks and do you have his contact info for these guys so they can check him out.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2009 at 23:46
I havent owned but one Baretta it was a 9mm that I carried on duty for a while but I have never felt confident with a 9mm even thought they seem to shoot very nicely and seem to have better penetration than a .38

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/30/2009 at 23:50
My OD was a 92 FSC 9mm and I liked it much. My current Beretta's are scatterguns. They got a handle on that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 00:04
Wes,
The mans name is Wayne York, he is a Gun Smith and makes Custom Synthetic Type Stocks  to fit the Shooter/Rifle. He also makes them for Rifle Makers in Various States. He is supposed to do very good work, his number 541-278-4177.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 10:26
Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

The BandC medalist stocks for standard hunting rifles, with which I have only experience with, are also made for specific actions and the stock to receiver and barrel fit is perfect. 
 
But they don't hand fit their stocks to any action and barrel contour you can dream up.  They offer an excellent drop-in stock for standard factory actions and barrel contours, not custom stocks.  All factory actions are made to standard production tolerances, which means there is slight variation in dimensions from action to action, so the drop in stocks have to accomodate these variations and therefore can never quite fit as tight as a stock that is hand fitted to a specific barreled action.  Here is what B&C says on their website about this:
 
"All Bell & Carlson stocks, unless indicated otherwise, are designed to permit the customer to simply remove the barreled action from the original stock and bolt it into the Bell & Carlson stock.  However, because of variations in manufacturers' original equipment or variations in the model (barrrel contour, etc.), it may be necessary to remove minimal material from the magazine and/or barrel channel area.   Modifications typically can be accomplished with standard woodworking tools such as "Dremel" tools, wooden dowel wrapped with sandpaper, etc.  However an actual "barrel channel tool" will be handy if you have a lot of material to remove in the barrel channel area.  It is not necessary to "glass bed" our stocks but obviously for an absolute, positive fit, this may be preferred."
 
You can send McMillan your barreled action, no matter the brand or barrel contour, and they will fit and bed a stock specifically for that action as long as it dimensionally fits within the envelope for the stock style you desire.  B&C does not do this.  I like B&C stocks; they are among the best factory drop in replacements, but they don't compete in the same arena as McMillan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 10:43
To clarify:

McMillan will bed your stock, sell you a fully inletted "drop in" stock, or sell something that requires MUCH work to fit to your barreled action - cost goes up as they spend more time on it.  You can have them pillar bed it, send you pillars, or no pillars.  McMillan will do almost anything you want, provided you have enough time and money.  Their product is the industry-standard as the best money can buy.

I have a Hogue overmold on a 10/22 and like it.  I've considered putting an over-mold on a larger caliber, but have concerns with fore-end flex being too great.  I like the feel and look and ruggedness of the stock, just not sure about putting it on a high-recoil gun.

I like H&S stocks, they jut never fit me too well (without getting the fully adjustable version, which is north of $500 and a 6-month wait for non-black stocks.)

How much you spend should be need-based and purpose-driven.  If its a plinker, no need for a $800 stock that fits you like a glove.  If it will be used to take off-hand shots on close-range dangerous game, better get something that fits pretty well.  If you need to put rounds on target at 1,000 yards, a stock that induces just a small bit of fatigue will kill your accuracy in a short time.

Get what you need, get more than you need if you can afford it; if you get less than you need, you'll be buying again.




Edited by Rancid Coolaid - July/31/2009 at 10:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 11:18
Anytime the topic of "best" anything comes up, it's important to answer the inevitable follow-up question "best for what?"
 
Since fit was among the OP's list of important considerations, a stock standard, one-size-fits-all, drop-in stock can never compete with a true custom synthetic stock in this regard, where you get a custom fit to your metal and any LOP you want.
 
If just a standard drop-in stock is sufficient, then any of the major brands offer good quality products that will usually last longer than you will and serve the intended purpose well.  They may not fit you quite as well as you'd like and you will be constrained by what options are offered as standard, but that may be plenty good enough.  If you want very specific specifications and very precise fit to both you and your barreled action, McMillan, Manners, and the like are the way to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 11:21
QUOTE=sakomato]I have 2 McMillans
Like pyro I am getting a 375 (although it is a better one, a 375 Ruger not a 375 H & H Stiring The Pot) [/QUOTE]
 
          Devil
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 13:45
Something that McMillan does, at no additional charge, is offer unlimited paint schemes. To me, the "McSwirly's" are pretty cool looking and no two are the same. If you have a SS rifle that you want to increase the cool factor on, swirl away I say. The B&C is a one size fits all for the most part. McMillan designs the stock for the specific application, action, barrel contour and bottom metal. They offer different recoil pad options and swivel choices. You can even get different "fill weights" to slightly adjust the finished weight. If you want a super lightweight stock, you can order any (or most anyway) of the original patterns with the "Edge" technology which is made from carbon fiber and finishes at 21-22 ounces on average. The B&C is not a bad stock, but in my opinion, it's not in the same category as a McMillan. They are, as someone mentioned, the industry standard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 16:14
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

QUOTE=sakomato]I have 2 McMillans
Like pyro I am getting a 375 (although it is a better one, a 375 Ruger not a 375 H & H Stiring The Pot)
 
          Devil
[/QUOTE]
yeah you guys can keep your wannabe .375'sBucky
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 21:30
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

The BandC medalist stocks for standard hunting rifles, with which I have only experience with, are also made for specific actions and the stock to receiver and barrel fit is perfect. 
 
But they don't hand fit their stocks to any action and barrel contour you can dream up.  They offer an excellent drop-in stock for standard factory actions and barrel contours, not custom stocks.  All factory actions are made to standard production tolerances, which means there is slight variation in dimensions from action to action, so the drop in stocks have to accomodate these variations and therefore can never quite fit as tight as a stock that is hand fitted to a specific barreled action.  Here is what B&C says on their website about this:
 
"All Bell & Carlson stocks, unless indicated otherwise, are designed to permit the customer to simply remove the barreled action from the original stock and bolt it into the Bell & Carlson stock.  However, because of variations in manufacturers' original equipment or variations in the model (barrrel contour, etc.), it may be necessary to remove minimal material from the magazine and/or barrel channel area.   Modifications typically can be accomplished with standard woodworking tools such as "Dremel" tools, wooden dowel wrapped with sandpaper, etc.  However an actual "barrel channel tool" will be handy if you have a lot of material to remove in the barrel channel area.  It is not necessary to "glass bed" our stocks but obviously for an absolute, positive fit, this may be preferred."
 
You can send McMillan your barreled action, no matter the brand or barrel contour, and they will fit and bed a stock specifically for that action as long as it dimensionally fits within the envelope for the stock style you desire.  B&C does not do this.  I like B&C stocks; they are among the best factory drop in replacements, but they don't compete in the same arena as McMillan.
You are correct, BandC does not offer custom fitting.  However, I would suggest that most of McMillan hunter style stocks are sold for drop in fit purposes.  And, as per their website, they also mention that for the "perfect" fit, you should send your barreled action in for proper fitting.  I wonder if Hill Country rifles, for their 1895 dollar Harvester Model, which is an excellant rifle, sends their accurized Remington barreled actions to McMillan for that perfect fit, which will run you from 488 to 803.  The latter reflects full pillar bedding.  I kind of doubt it, I think the guys at Hill country rifles know how to do that and for 1895 dollars including an accurized 700 action/barrels and McMillan stock, I do not think that includes 803 dollars worth of work or discounted work by McMillan for Hill Country.  Plus, I like the full bedding block of the BandC.  For hunting purposes, yes the BandC is in the same arena as McMillan.  No doubt about it.  The only only thing that counts after looking at a quality product, is where the hunting bullet hits and all the ones I have stocked, hit where I point them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 21:41
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Anytime the topic of "best" anything comes up, it's important to answer the inevitable follow-up question "best for what?"
 
Since fit was among the OP's list of important considerations, a stock standard, one-size-fits-all, drop-in stock can never compete with a true custom synthetic stock in this regard, where you get a custom fit to your metal and any LOP you want.
 
If just a standard drop-in stock is sufficient, then any of the major brands offer good quality products that will usually last longer than you will and serve the intended purpose well.  They may not fit you quite as well as you'd like and you will be constrained by what options are offered as standard, but that may be plenty good enough.  If you want very specific specifications and very precise fit to both you and your barreled action, McMillan, Manners, and the like are the way to go.
The  OP's list of important considerations was fit, but he did not specify to the level of a custom stock.  For any replacement stock, fit should always be a consideration.  McMillan on their website does not specify how they custom fit their stock to a barreled action.  I suspect they take a standard model for a specific barreled action, mate them and then do some type of heat shrinkage, since there is no full metal bedding block.  Obviously an over simplification.  Then if you want to have it pillar bedded for a ridiculously extra amount of money, they perform that either in concert with the above noted procedure or afterwards.  NOW, IN NONE OF MY POSTS HAVE I EVER INDICATED THAT MCMILLAN STOCKS ARE ANYTHING, BUT TOP SHELF.  BUT, I HAVE NOTICED ON THIS SITE, THAT EVERYTIME A QUESTION IS ASKED, THE CORRESPONDING ANSWER FOR THE BEST IS ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE.  THAT IS NOT ALWAYS TRUE.  THERE ARE TOO MANY GREAT PRODUCTS OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT THE MOST EXPENSIVE, THAT ARE THE BEST, OR ONE OF THE BEST.  MCMILLAN IS ONE OF THE BEST, BUT NOT THE BEST IN ALL SITUATIONS.  IF IT WAS THE BEST FOR ALL PURPOSES, THERE WOULD BE NOBODY ELSE BUYING OTHER STOCKS THAT ARE CLOSELY PRICED.  SOMETIMES I WISH SOME MANUFACTURES OF GREAT PRODUCTS WOULD DOUBLE THEIR PRICE, AS I BELIVE THEY WOULD GET MORE RECOGNITION.  A GREAT UNDERATED PRODUCT IN MONTANA RIFLE ACTIONS.  FOR THEIR COST, THEY ARE A STEAL COMPARED TO SOME REALLY EXPENSIVE ACTIONS WITH MORE EXCLUSIVITY.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 21:44
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

QUOTE=sakomato]I have 2 McMillans
Like pyro I am getting a 375 (although it is a better one, a 375 Ruger not a 375 H & H Stiring The Pot)
 
          Devil

yeah you guys can keep your wannabe .375'sBucky
[/QUOTE]
4+ on that one pyro6999.  The 375 H&H rocks.


Edited by safariarms man - July/31/2009 at 21:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr.Lou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 23:16
McMillan, there is no substitute!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 23:19
Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

McMillan on their website does not specify how they custom fit their stock to a barreled action.  I suspect they take a standard model for a specific barreled action, mate them and then do some type of heat shrinkage, since there is no full metal bedding block.  Obviously an over simplification.  Then if you want to have it pillar bedded for a ridiculously extra amount of money, they perform that either in concert with the above noted procedure or afterwards. 


No, you ship them your barreled action and bottom metal, they make a stock specifically fitted to your metal, and ship your rifle back with whatever style stock you wanted fitted to it, with whatever finish, LOP, etc. you wanted.  If, for instance, you have a custom action with a custom barrel contour, they can provide a stock for you.  None of the off-the-shelf drop in only stock manufacturers can provide such a stock.  They also have the best warranty of any stock, period -- unconditional lifetime, for any reason, with a full refund policy if you don't like your stock.  None of this is intended as a slam against B&C or any other drop in stock maker; it is merely an explanation of why many regard McMillan as the best.  The point is simply that McMillan will provide you with nearly anything you want and back up their product better than anyone else, which is why custom rifle manufacturers like HCR as you mentioned uses them.  Of course HCR fits the stocks to their actions.  They provide McMillan their specs and McMillan makes stocks to that spec.  More options; that's the point.  They are by far the largest supplier of synthetic stocks in the world and have been doing so longer than anyone else for a good reason.

None of this reasoning has anything to do with what is the most expensive.  The reason McMillan is more expensive is because they don't make a mass-produced, one size fits all product.  Increasing the number of options of any product always increases price, because a manufacturer cannot take advantage of the cost-savings benefits of large production runs of the same item.

Even when you order a drop-in from them, which I have, they offer versions for every factory barrel contour ever made for that action and all factory variations in bottom metal.  In my case, I told them I had a #3 contour Shilen barrel with no straight cylinder length forward of the action and McMillan bottom metal.  They asked for some basic barrel dimensions and said that they didn't need for me to send them my action with the info I had provided them.  They were able to accommodate my specific barrel contour and it was right when I received it, with a very close gap between barrel and forend barely thicker than a couple pieces of paper. 

I don't understand the all caps rant.  Where did that come from?  Why do you assume that price is always the determining factor for what everyone here regards as the best?  It is true in many cases that the best of any product is often more expensive because "the best" quite often costs more to make.  Why are you so quick to insult fellow OT members' intelligence just because you disagree with the consensus?  All anyone here has done is express our opinions and state reasons for our opinions. 


Edited by RifleDude - July/31/2009 at 23:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/31/2009 at 23:48
Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

BUT, I HAVE NOTICED ON THIS SITE, THAT EVERYTIME A QUESTION IS ASKED, THE CORRESPONDING ANSWER FOR THE BEST IS ALWAYS THE MOST EXPENSIVE. 


I have to say that the direct opposite is true 95% of the time. If you would take the time to read various threads, especially the ones regarding hunting rifle scopes, you would see how often the middle of the road scopes are in fact mentioned. Same goes for bino's unless the question suggests no spending limit. I don't pay alot of attention to the tactical scope threads unless I have to, so I can't say whether or not the same holds true there. Of course the application and need for top shelf equipment would more often than not necessitate higher dollars being spent. Unlike many forums, this place has lots of guys who know the value of a dollar and don't look down their noses at those who don't.

Regarding how McMillan beds their stocks, I can say with 100% certainty that they don't "heat shrink" their stocks. It's drop-in or glass/pillar bedded. They also state that it is not required.

Edited by Roy Finn - July/31/2009 at 23:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2009 at 11:04
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by safariarms man safariarms man wrote:

McMillan on their website does not specify how they custom fit their stock to a barreled action.  I suspect they take a standard model for a specific barreled action, mate them and then do some type of heat shrinkage, since there is no full metal bedding block.  Obviously an over simplification.  Then if you want to have it pillar bedded for a ridiculously extra amount of money, they perform that either in concert with the above noted procedure or afterwards. 


No, you ship them your barreled action and bottom metal, they make a stock specifically fitted to your metal, and ship your rifle back with whatever style stock you wanted fitted to it, with whatever finish, LOP, etc. you wanted.  If, for instance, you have a custom action with a custom barrel contour, they can provide a stock for you.  None of the off-the-shelf drop in only stock manufacturers can provide such a stock.  They also have the best warranty of any stock, period -- unconditional lifetime, for any reason, with a full refund policy if you don't like your stock.  None of this is intended as a slam against B&C or any other drop in stock maker; it is merely an explanation of why many regard McMillan as the best.  The point is simply that McMillan will provide you with nearly anything you want and back up their product better than anyone else, which is why custom rifle manufacturers like HCR as you mentioned uses them.  Of course HCR fits the stocks to their actions.  They provide McMillan their specs and McMillan makes stocks to that spec.  More options; that's the point.  They are by far the largest supplier of synthetic stocks in the world and have been doing so longer than anyone else for a good reason.

None of this reasoning has anything to do with what is the most expensive.  The reason McMillan is more expensive is because they don't make a mass-produced, one size fits all product.  Increasing the number of options of any product always increases price, because a manufacturer cannot take advantage of the cost-savings benefits of large production runs of the same item.

Even when you order a drop-in from them, which I have, they offer versions for every factory barrel contour ever made for that action and all factory variations in bottom metal.  In my case, I told them I had a #3 contour Shilen barrel with no straight cylinder length forward of the action and McMillan bottom metal.  They asked for some basic barrel dimensions and said that they didn't need for me to send them my action with the info I had provided them.  They were able to accommodate my specific barrel contour and it was right when I received it, with a very close gap between barrel and forend barely thicker than a couple pieces of paper. 

I don't understand the all caps rant.  Where did that come from?  Why do you assume that price is always the determining factor for what everyone here regards as the best?  It is true in many cases that the best of any product is often more expensive because "the best" quite often costs more to make.  Why are you so quick to insult fellow OT members' intelligence just because you disagree with the consensus?  All anyone here has done is express our opinions and state reasons for our opinions. 
I understand your point better now.  Sorry for the caps.  Not meant to be a rant, but an emphasis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote safariarms man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2009 at 11:06
By the way, there was no intention to insult anyone's intelligence and if anyone took it that way, they were mistaken.
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