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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/13/2018 at 18:45
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Optics Apprentice
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Looking for some feedback and opinions.

I'm looking for a new scope for my Ruger Hawkeye Predator 6.5 Creedmoor. I have no intentions of using this rifle for deer, but anything is possible. It's main purpose is coyotes and recreational target shooting.

First off, I'm a hunter primarily, but my range has a new 800m station and I've started to play there a bit. My current scopes are all hunting models, but I could definitely use some more magnification and will be dialing as I'm personally averse to ballistic reticles.

The choices right now are:
-Zeiss Conquest V6 3-18×50
-Leupold VX-6HD 3-18×50
-Leupold VX-5HD 3-15×44
-Zeiss Conquest V4 4-16×44

Swarovski scopes have a turret system that's too crude for primarily range work, though I'm sure the system works fine for hunting. I'm not interested in the X5 either, too tactical.

I'm not interested in a Schmidt & Bender PMII, or other tactical type setup. I'm looking for a crossover scope and I'm not sure that S&B makes one?

Vortex is a no go. Not interested in their hardcore target or tactical offerings, and their Razor HD LH is a pure hunting scope, not a crossover.

I have three Leica scopes, and nearly bought a 2.4-16×56 Magnus non-illuminated with BDC a few weeks ago, but I'm not sure that is a good option for a primarily range scope.

Any suggestions or other options that I'm overlooking to fill this particular niche? Any help is appreciated.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2018 at 03:42
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I'm very tempted by the illuminated Magnus 2.4-16x56 with BDC for my 7x64 build...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2018 at 15:10
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Optics Apprentice
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I'm a big fan of the Leica scopes I have, and I don't have a Magnus. I'm just not sure that the Magnus 2.4-16×56 (which I almost bought earlier this summer) is as good a scope for this application as the Zeiss V6 looks to be.

The Magnus I can get for around $300 more...but my dealer is a big fan of the Zeiss.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2018 at 15:41
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 First or second focal plane?

And can we delineate between bullet drop compensating reticles and ballistic reticles?  For a long time, I was a turret-spinner; however, having now familiarized myself with a few Christmas tree reticles (all with mil scaling), I am a turret-spinner no more.  

No more getting lost on the revolution (though most now have 2nd rev indicators), no more making minor adjustments to walk rounds on target.  With a mil-scale reticle, see the splash, scale the correction, correct on the reticle, fire for effect: much faster than spinning in corrections.

But, to be clear, none of that is caliber- or load-specific, it is all mil-based and is all done on an FFP optic.  For targets, it is a great option.

Unless you like spinning turrets, then by all means carry on.

Also, consider the internal elevation of the optic, your range is around when that can start becoming an issue.

Lastly, you might be tempted to go higher in magnification, don't.  I do my best distance shooting around 15X, higher than that and head position becomes super-critical, and you get to watch your heart-beat on the reticle.  And don't go with too much magnification on the low end, yotes don't stand still for long, especially when being shot at.

I have to keep it vague, since I don't have much time on any of the scopes listed as options right now.  My hunting scopes are pure hunting or pure tactical, depending on the application.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2018 at 15:54
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The 4 scopes you listed are all 2nd focal point, so those nice hold over reticles on the Zeiss will only work on a specific mag, likely high mag. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2018 at 17:23
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Given the prices of the scopes you listed, you should really consider Bushnell LRHSi 4.5-18x44.  It is, I think, a crossover scope you are looking for.

If you are OK spending more money, Tangent Theta TT315M, while technically a tactical offering is very good in a crossover role.

Both of these are FFP.  If you prefer SFP, Get one the Leica Magnus or Visus scopes with a Ballistic reticle.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2018 at 17:38
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Optics Apprentice
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 First or second focal plane?

And can we delineate between bullet drop compensating reticles and ballistic reticles?  For a long time, I was a turret-spinner; however, having now familiarized myself with a few Christmas tree reticles (all with mil scaling), I am a turret-spinner no more.  

No more getting lost on the revolution (though most now have 2nd rev indicators), no more making minor adjustments to walk rounds on target.  With a mil-scale reticle, see the splash, scale the correction, correct on the reticle, fire for effect: much faster than spinning in corrections.

But, to be clear, none of that is caliber- or load-specific, it is all mil-based and is all done on an FFP optic.  For targets, it is a great option.

Unless you like spinning turrets, then by all means carry on.

Also, consider the internal elevation of the optic, your range is around when that can start becoming an issue.

Lastly, you might be tempted to go higher in magnification, don't.  I do my best distance shooting around 15X, higher than that and head position becomes super-critical, and you get to watch your heart-beat on the reticle.  And don't go with too much magnification on the low end, yotes don't stand still for long, especially when being shot at.

I have to keep it vague, since I don't have much time on any of the scopes listed as options right now.  My hunting scopes are pure hunting or pure tactical, depending on the application.


I have no FFP scopes, nor am I interested in getting one. I do use a range finder, and I like clean reticles that stay the same size, which means SFP.

I do prefer a graduated type reticle over a ballistic reticle that is designed as a hunters holdover shortcut, but all being equal I would choose a clean 4a I think.

I would not go over 16 or 18 times magnification I think. I'm not a zoom junkie and am used to 7×-10× as a top end, with 12× being the highest mag scopes I've ever owned.
That said, 10× just isn't cutting it for the 800m range. I think 15-18 or so woild be about perfect for me.

I started dialing this year, and I like it. I'm not a high volume shooter, and maybe put 100 rounds or so downrange every time I go...which is every couple of weeks or so, just enough to stay sharp. The point being, I'm not dialing like crazy every weekend for 22-300 rounds, and this will be the first hunting season where I go out ready to dial on longer shots should the situation present.

Bottom line, I think a crossover type hunting scope would be perfect for me. It needs to be first rate, or I'll end up wasting money replacing it, but I don't want a dedicated target scope....more a hunting scope that can capably fill my range time needs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/14/2018 at 18:01
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Optics Apprentice
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Given the prices of the scopes you listed, you should really consider Bushnell LRHSi 4.5-18x44.  It is, I think, a crossover scope you are looking for.

If you are OK spending more money, Tangent Theta TT315M, while technically a tactical offering is very good in a crossover role.

Both of these are FFP.  If you prefer SFP, Get one the Leica Magnus or Visus scopes with a Ballistic reticle.

ILya


Bushnell never occured to me. I've never thought about them as a top quality scope to be honest... I'll take a look, but I'm not sure if those are readily available in Canada.

Tangent Theta (Canadian company I believe) are out of my price range at aboit double what the V6 sells for.

I have two ERi scopes with 4a and BDC turret both. These are bith 2.5-10×42 scopes, and even if I could find a 3-12×50, I think I want around 15× magnification. I also don't want illumination for this scope if it's possuble ro avoid it, as this is not a scope that will be going hunting in the dusk hours.

I can get a good deal on the Magnus 2.4-16×56 non-illuminated with BDC turret and ballistic reticle. In fact, it would be just $300 more than the Zeiss V6 3-18×50, but I'm not sure if the internal adjustment range is enough for 800 metres (nearly 900 yards) as it's something like 12 mrads internal adjustment total. I do not want to resort to a rail for mounting which precludes a 20moa base or the like.

My dealer is a big fan of the Zeiss V6, and it has 103 moa of internal adjustment, 20 moa per rotation turret with zero stop, and supposedly has Zeiss Victory glass....whatever that means.

I like the appearance, fit and finish, and the scope features. I don't like the lack of track record, and frankly, the sales pitch seems a bit too good to be true.

The only internet reviews I've been able to find are all from a big launch event at the FTW ranch in Texas where Zeiss flew a gaggle (gun writers make a gaggle, right?) of gun writers in to wow them with their new line of scopes.

The thing is, that's not a very valuable review to me. Not just because of the "wining and dining" aspect, but because there's no chance for the reviewers to take their time, evaluate the optics by whatever set of standards they have found to work for them, or even to compare them dude by side with another scope of known quality.

Everybody gets to have a nice time learning to shoot to 1500 yards, but there's no actual evaluation of the quality of the scopes.

Maybe Zeiss was just trying to create buzz by getting their scopes into the hands of as many influencers as possible, as quickly as possible. But I'd like at least a couple of genuine reviews before I potentially waste a significant amount of money on something new.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/15/2018 at 23:46
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It seems Bushnell has discontinued their LRHS scopes and I'm unable to find one to look at, tgough I can order one from my dealer who still has a couple of the 4.5-18. I'm not sure it's what I'm looking for anyways, the reticle is not only FFP, but a christmas tree type.

I'm thinking of the Leica Magnus 2.4-16×56, though I've read some critique of it's eye box at higher magnification. Also, I'm not sure if it's the right scope for this purpose, I'm not sure a 56mm objective is what I'm looking for.

The Zeiss V6 is said to have Victory glass and I like the configuration, finding feedback on it seems to be a black hole though. It seems like if you could buy Victory glass at that price, and it's been out for a little while already, the reviews from actual users would be in by now.

I'm getting the feeling that Zeiss isn't popular here for some reason, just hoping for something concrete on why I should avoid buying what seems like an incredible value scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2018 at 11:51
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I have more experience with the 1.7-12x50 Magnus, but the eyerelief on that one is exceedingly forgiving.  Same for ERi/Visus.

As far as Zeiss goes, I am not sure why you think it is not popular, but you are right in that I have not been recommending Zeiss lately.  I am sorta waiting to see what their product line morphs into.  I have only had a brief look at their stuff lately, but I walked away thinking that I should let them settle in a little before I spend more time on Zeiss' current stuff.

Some of it looked good. Some not so good.  More importantly, there seemed to be enough variation across the same product line to make it difficult for me to draw any conclusions.

Some were consistent.  For example, every Zeiss Terra scope I saw was a turd.  V8 was a mixed bag.  V4 looked pretty good, but then again it is an OEM scope like everyone else's, so it should be (which does not explain Terra).  V6 seemed like a bit of a mixed bag.  Some looked good, but some had sever distortion.

What that means is that unless I get my hands on multiple samples of every model, I can't draw enough of a conclusion to make recommendations.

For example, with Leica Magnus, I had a somewhat brief look at all of them and they looked very nice.  Then, I went and tested the 1.7-12x50 thoroughly and it is the best hunting scope I have ever tested.  Then I had another glance at a couple of other models and they still look very good.  I may still be wrong, but with this sort of a consistent impresssion, I cna recommend the whole Magnus line reasonably confidently.  Same for ERi/Visus.  I had a look at every variation and tested three different ones carefuly, so I am reasonably confident.

Same with different Swaro scopes that I like slightly less than Leica, but have enough mileage with and see enough consistency with to make recommendations.

With Zeiss, it used to be the same with the original Conquest and Victory.  However, once they went to China to make HD5, I did not see enough consistency to be comfortable recommending them, so I stopped.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2018 at 15:36
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Optics Apprentice
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That's fair. I had an HD5 for about 3 months, and it wasn't a scope that I liked. I didn't put through any kind of evaluation, and it was a capped turret model, but it wasn't a nice scope to look through for me and it's the only Zeiss I've ever used.

I guess it's up to me to try thr 3-18 V6 and see if I like it. If everything I'm being told about it by the salesmen (Victory glass, the best, most accurate turrets Zeiss has had to date) them it should be a winner.

It's not that I don't know what I like once I have a chance to use it, but I do believe in "the wisdom of the crowd" and really good products at great value points usually beget great feedback.

The Zeiss HD5 for example, is not well regarded on the internet, but when I bought mine I assumed it would be a good scope based on it's being a supposed upgrade of the old Zeiss Conquest. I'm trying to avoid the same mistake, and I'm not sure I trust Zeiss marketing after the HD5, which was outclassed by the Leupold VX3i I replaced it with.
Not to mention, my brother in law has a Terra, which is a very bad scope for the money imho.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/16/2018 at 20:14
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I was just doing a similar search and bought a Zeiss V6.
5-30 with zmoa-1 #93 reticle.
It arrives in 3 days, so I'll have better feedback then.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 08:59
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Very nice, pease share your impressions.
I'm very much on the fence between ordering a 3-18×50, or waiting for the Leica Magnus to go on sale.
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