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Best load for Savage 10FP 308

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2008 at 15:04
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Well I went to the range today and tried my loads for the 175SMK using IMR4895. The results were good thus far. I had 1 group that was 1 1/8" with one flyer that I called. I had another group that was 1 1/16 with one flyer that I called. The four shots that were together in both groups were one holers that were 3/4" and 5/8". I'm going to pick up another box of 175SMKs and try the 4895 again. The last 4 loads that I fired I was fighting the mirage so I may have to try them again. I also did not have any preassure signs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2008 at 15:06
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Were these 5 shot groups, Belt?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/01/2008 at 16:23
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Were these 5 shot groups, Belt?
Yep! Again I'm shooting these loads to look for preassure signs and looking for potential loads for accuracy. Every group is five shots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2008 at 17:10
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Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Were these 5 shot groups, Belt?
Yep! Again I'm shooting these loads to look for preassure signs and looking for potential loads for accuracy. Every group is five shots.
 
Maxing out the loads huh. If possible I try to stay at least a few tenths of a grain under the bullet manufacturers suggested load.  However I have heard that the way to maximize your load is to add one grain incriments untill the rife blows up then back off a grain on the loads. Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2008 at 18:25
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Laugh%20Above
Actually I will take the data from the manuals I have and average them for a bulllit weight range. It's hard to explain (really it's just long), but it keeps me from starting at the lowest powder charge or going to the highest maximum charge. It's a way to take into account different bullit shapes and bullit weight varences ie. 170gr to 175gr that some manuals show.
I did this with one powder and my maximum load was just starting to show signs of pressure, but one manual I had showed a maximum charge a couple of gr.s higher.
This system also takes into account that my components may not be the same as in the manuals, example I use military brass which is heavier than commercial.
It may be overly cautious, but I like my ugly face, and I don't want to wear out a rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 00:20
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I thought you'd get a chuckle out of that. I have three reloading manuals that all seem to disagree on things as simple as how much Unique you can load in a 158 semi wadcutter 38, its no wonder people have issues reloading. I think my 35yr old sierra manual still shows 23.3 grains of 2400 in a 240 gr JHP 44 mag where the new manual has dropped it a couple of grains.  I've shot some at 23.3 that will make you hand come alive. Then we have cartridges like 45-70 that are quite complex due to the strength of different actions chambered for it.  I load some military brass at times also and I am really careful about my rifle loads I have a RCBS electric scale powder dispenser that is priceless for rifle loads.  I still use the old manual powder thrower for pistol loads but I load them about three tenths below max because the powder throwers can fluctuate a tad.  There are some booklets by specific  caliber that show all the different manufacturers recomended loading info and I have a couple of them naturally one is 45-70. Usually when I find a load I like I stay with it to maintain consistence, although in .223 I have been experimenting with different weight bullets - I shot some 75 gr AMAX today that I bought before I realized they load too long to fit in magazines and must be fired single shot, the 60 gr AMAX seems to work well so I loaded some of them and got a box of 77gr Sierra but my old manual doesnt show a load for them cause there were no heavy bullets 35 yrs ago for .223.Head%20Banger
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 14:13
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Yea I did Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing. I've had to buy some new manuals because my old ones were as old as yours', and most powder manufactureres have changed hands, and there are so many new bullits.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2008 at 16:45
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Wes, your absolutely right about manual powder throwers they sometimes fluctuate a few 10ths of a grain.  I have gotten into the habit of weighting every charge when I reload. I don't like surprises. Heck yes it slows down the process, but I'm going for consistency not speed.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 16:54
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Well I finally got to go to the range for my shoot-off of the three powders I have tried. Chronographed the loads at the same time. Haven't had time to check all the results yet, but so far it looks like 748 is giving the best and most consistant groups. Varget is a close second and giving a little higher velocity. All three powders gave good results (748, 4895, Varget).
I also opened up the barrell chanel to give an even clearence between stock and barrell. Before I did this it seemed like I had horizontel stringing when the barrell heated up. Today I had a problem with mirage from the sun and especially from the number of rounds I fired in a short time, and I did not have the same problem with horizontel stringing.
Hopefully I'll have time to go over the results this weekend and give group sizes and velocities, and other info.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2009 at 20:13
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I'm still scratching my head about Mike McDonnald 's  190 SMK load since it is over what the book says is max but there seems to be some disagreement as to what max is cause it looks like the makers of Varget say 45gr is max.  I think he last said he was using 42.5 gr. to push the 190 SMK.   I like the idea of the 190 but I'm starting to think I need a 30-06 to step the speed up a bit.  I already shoot the 190 in my 300 WM but I only get to use virgin brass which really takes the fun out of reloading and wanting to shoot it more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 07:01
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I would ditch the IMI brass (unless it's match).  Standard IMI was shot quite a bit in auto weapons.  Lapua is expensive but in the long run, you'll get more loads per case.  Winchester is another good case for 308 loads.  I fully prep mine deburring the flash hole and uniforming the primer pockets.  This only has to be done once for that particular lot of brass.  Federal is not too bad but is a bit soft and usually craps out around four loadings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2009 at 14:02
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I have a bunch of IVI brass, and it was fired out of my rifles. With the scaricty of brass right now I aint ditchen nothin.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/27/2009 at 19:57
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miltary brass varies a bit in the neck thickness, usually outside neck turning will show more improvement with military than civilian as a percentage, by turning you can select the tension for autos or thinner for bolts. also primer seating pressure can vary more with military because of dimensional differences. try getting a Dillons primer swager, or a lee if possible.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 14:06
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Yeah, I know how bad military brass is. When testing some loads last week I got one group of 4 shots that was about 9/16 of an inch, the 5th shot opened it up to 1 1/8th. Though I don't think the terrible mirage or the jerk behind the trigger had anything to do with the 5th round.
I finally got enough Win. brass to start working up a load for the Savage. Just to see what the differences were I weighed the IVI brass against the Winchester brass (about 10 cases of each). The IVI brass averaged about 181 grains with about 3 grains of variance. the Winchester brass was either 158 or 159 grains with about 2 grains of variance.
The Winchester brass was more consistant by weight. It will be interesting to see what groups and velocities will be like with about 22 grains of difference between the cases.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 16:52
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LC, OFV,IMI responds well to case prep. although its a lot of work, nice thing about it -- the primer pockets last forever.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2009 at 12:56
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Update! With much experimenting. I got some new unfired Winchester brass, primed them with Federal large rifle match primers, and used both Varget and Winchester 748 powder to find my most accurate load for the 175gr SMK.
Starting with Varget; I started my testing with the most accurate load I had using the military brass, and worked up to the maximum load in the Sierra manual in .2 gr. increments. The groups that I got were pretty consistant, they were all about 1 1/4" give or take a 1/4", with no sign of excessive preassure.
I tried Win. 748 starting at my most accurate load in military brass and working up to the maximum load in the Sierra manual. Since the weight differences between my starting load and the maximum load were so great, I moved up in .5gr. increments to see if there were any signs of excessive preassure and what might be the most accurate. I had no excessive preassure signs, and my groups shrank between 42.5 and 43.5gr.s with 43.0gr.s being the smallest. I then tried moving up in .1gr increments from 42.5 to 43.5gr.s. Again 43.0gr. was the most accurate at about 5/8 to 3/4 inch groups.
I was supprised to see that Win 748 has shown to give me the smallest groups over Varget in both Winchester and military cases, at least in this rifle.
I have velocity info in my notes, but there not here now.
My next experiment, I'm going to try Hornady 178gr AMAX and 43.0gr.s of Win748.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2009 at 14:47
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This my 100yd target. The group on the right is my fouler shots, and the group on the left is my current load.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2009 at 14:56
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This is a 4 shot group from 200yds. One of the lower right shots (not sure which one) was from sighting in at 200yds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2009 at 15:10
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This is my 300yd target. The group is still under 1 MOA. The 100 and 300yd groups were 5 shot groups, while the 200yd group is only 4 shots.
I shot a 5 shot group with 175 SMK and 178 A-MAX yesterday, changing only the bullet in the load. I hope to post those two groups as they show no difference between the two.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2009 at 15:20
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Nice that the groups stayed consistent even with a bullet change.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2009 at 16:29
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Yeah, I didn't get very good results with 175gr SMK's.
I only tried them with Varget, but it was a bust for me.
You have a 1 in 10 twist barrel, so they may well work for you. (Should)
 
Most the .308 shooters in my AO are using Varget too.
 
I run 168gr. SMK's and 45.5gr. of Varget with CCI BR-2 primers.
I have shot this same load for quite awhile with good results.
 
Here's a 5 shot, 100 yd group with that load.
 
 

Very nice, Mark.  (Looks like one shot was a little low and left, though...)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2009 at 16:33
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KB this is a Savsge 10FP we're talking about, not Black Betty. But I'm working on it.

Edited by BeltFed - July/09/2009 at 16:34
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2009 at 06:29
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Black Betty IS a Remington.  He only has a savage.  Roll on Floor Laughing   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2009 at 09:27
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That will give you something to strive for.  Imagine you are the little engine that could and keep saying "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can".  Laugh  Sorry, that was the bedtime story Abbie wanted read last night.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2009 at 11:24
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This has turned into the mad reloaders quest to stack bullets.
I went to the range to group and chronograph some loads using 178gr A-MAX bullets, but it got to dark to chronograph, so I decided to compare two loads. I shot a 5 shot group each using the 175gr SMK and 178gr A-MAX, everything else was the same, powder, primer, case, etc.. The group on top is the SMK, and the bottom one is the A-MAX. There doesn't seem to be any difference between the two at 100yds.
What do you think?
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