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Carl Zeiss-Jena D.F. x15

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    Posted: February/28/2020 at 09:30
Just got a new set of binoculars come in.
In really good condition, some slight cosmetic damage to one turret (left) looks like a drop or impact of some sort. Internally looking good, optical path nice and clear, but left turret does not move to allow IPD adjustment. Maybe all the same problem, we will have to see.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2020 at 10:03
Nice find Don, original case too.
God save the Empire!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2020 at 10:16
YUUP! Got lucky.

Had a quick look at the turret issue. If you look carefully at the top photo, you can see the top of the left turret swells out towards the center. The turret is deformed and off center, so is jammed. I've checked the collimation and it's fine. But I am going to have tear down the turret to repair it. It's aluminium, so it does present a concern. Most likely I will have to make a former and do some careful heating and tapping to get it back into true again.

Buts that all part of the fun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2020 at 12:02
I cannot find any information on these, other than what is on them. If anyone knows anything about then, speak up.

My goggle fu is weak on this one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John A Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2020 at 00:40

Hi DPI,


Google 'Carl Zeiss Jena D.F. 15x', and go to the Images option

It will take you to 2 in Frank Weissörtel's Flickr pages



John

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2020 at 04:12
Excellent
That's the badger!

Mine are actually a lower service number, #34, than the one on Flicker.

Strange I had tried looking on his flicker site and got everything but that one.

The gods of Goggle are strange and mysterious and not for the knowledge of mortal man.
Many thanks. Howdy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2020 at 08:36
Uber cool!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/03/2020 at 13:29
Had a look inside the damaged turret.

It appears that the optics are held in an internal cage arrangement and that the damage only impacted the turret external casing. That would answer why they are still collimated. The turret is canted, so that the IPD cannot be adjusted, but is actually just right for me.

So the question remains. Do I let sleeping dogs lie, or try and repair them and risk screwing it up completely. I am pretty sure that I would not be able to collimate them, as they won't fit my machine. Possibly, just maybe they may fit on a modern machine. There is a company in the Netherlands that might be able to take that on.

I am going to have to think about this one for a while. In the meantime they work.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 06:45
Ok, So what with every thing else going on. I have time to look at these in more depth.
If you recall the set had been dropped or knocked severely at some point, damaging the left hand turret and deforming it. Also the turret does not easily respond to allow changes to the IPD setting.

Point one: in addition to the turret damage, the ocular mounting plate for that turret is warped.

Point two: the prism set is held in a cage. The collimation alignment being achieved via three setscrews passing through the turret wall and engaging the prism mounting plate. The whole cage is held in position within the turret by means of three screws.

The photos of the prism cage, does not really show the setscrews or the mounting screws as they are right at the back of the turret in the photo.

So first job is to try and straighten the ocular mounting plate, to bring it back to true again.

Second, is to remove the prism assy, trying not to make any serious changes to the setscrews.
Then back to the turret and try to bring it back to the correct form.

Thirdly, to address the IPD movement issue, no idea yet what is causing that.

Ocular Mounting plate.

Prism assy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 07:32
Good luck with the repairs Don, looks like they took quite a hit. Good thing you’ve got some time on your hands for this!
God save the Empire!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 07:46
The Prism cage has been extracted from the turret. You can see one of the three alignment setscrews and the three prism cage mounting screw holes.

The cage came out without having to make any changes to the setscrew positions, So fingers crossed on this. Apart from cleaning, there does not seem to be any issues with the prisms at all.

The turret should come off now by removing the four screws that you can see in the photo.

Prism cage.



Turret Interior.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 07:57
The fortunate part of all this is, that the damage/deformation is confined to the top of the turret. The impact, whatever it was, did not affect the lower part. I have checked with a feeler gauge and compared the setting for both turrets and they are roughly the same to a few thousands of an inch. So reforming the top of the turret should not affect the alignment setscrews at all, which I am hoping will allow the prism cage to be reinstalled and maintain the collimation. Long shot I know, but I live in hope.

Now to remove the turret and find out what is causing the problem with the IPD movement. With any luck it will be an 'Old grease' problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 08:14
Yup! Old Grease problem for the IPD issue. (see attached photos)
You can see the old, black grease which has a fairly solid consistency now, so doing the opposite of what is intended.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 08:44
Update:

I can see why this was never fixed by the Swiss.

In order to get at the IPD mechanism entire, to clean and re-grease. I have to remove the other turret and the top plate of the binoculars that they mount on.

That means two chances at screwing up the collimation.

I am going to have to think on this further.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 10:39
WOW! Things just got interesting really fast.

It seems that the IPD adjustment is not on one turret, but is on both. Also, the other element of the assy is equally gunged up with old grease.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/14/2020 at 10:48
That is an interesting looking assembly but I'm glad you’re working on it not me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2020 at 01:36
This is the IPD assy dismantled.

The locking rings are secured by one set screw in each ring, once removed then the locking rings can be removed fairly easily. The locking rings had been given a right going over in the past and I have had to clean up and reshape the detents that you use to engage and turn to release them. After the initial seal is cracked, caused by the old lubricant, they unscrew by hand.

The locking rings hold the collets that the steel drive-band is connected to in place. Also the collets have keyways and a small key. You have to look out for this as the collets lift straight up and sometimes the keys stick in the keyway and could be lost.

Apart from the old lubrication, that makes it sticky, it all comes apart readily.

At the moment they are all sitting in hot soapy water to degrease. I would kill for an ultrasound cleaner, which I have, but its in the UK.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2020 at 02:57
Lesson learnt:

It is not strictly necessary to remove the drive band from the collets. These can be removed as a single unit.

Trying to get the screws back in is really fiddly, also to ensure that the drive bands at the cross-over have sufficient clearance otherwise you get a nasty grinding noise when moving the IPD setting as the edges of the band rub against each other. That's fiddly too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2020 at 03:13
IPD assy cleaned, re-lubricated with dampening grease, the retaining rings threads lubricated with a thin wipe of cold weather bicycle chain oil.

I have reattached one turret to check everything was correctly orientated and that the IPD assy worked to expectation.

Now to reinstall the prism cage, into this turret, remount the whole IPD carrier plate to the binocular body and get back to the original problem of the other, damaged turret and ocular carrier plate.

The whole collimation issue I shall address later, once everything else is done. Wont that be fun?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2020 at 07:17
Well all back together again and no parts left over.
The IPD assy now works nice and smoothly, evenly moving both turrets.

The prism cages dropped back in nicely, the right hand with no collimation issues, but the left hand one that was damaged, was slightly out with some vertical error showing. I put this down to the reducing the damage to the turret.

I reduced the amount of deformation of the turret as far as was practical, it is old aluminium after all, also straightened the ocular mounting plate, of course this changed the dimensions of the turret, which has led to the collimation error.

I corrected the error as far as a Mk 1 eyeball can do. I will try and find the company in the Netherlands and have them do it properly. But they are usable as they stand.

Trying now to decide if to give them a new coat of black lacquer or not.




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