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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2018 at 09:33
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Chief Sackscratch

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Been toying with the ideal of carrying a smaller subcompact gun more vs the larger ones I normally carry to help save on weight and see if it helps ease some back pain.  I do always tend to get a quality holster but still my go to gun lately has been the sig 320 x carry and with 18 rounds of 9mm, it weighs more than most think would be comfortable all day.

 

I think I want to try a single stack gun, subcompact size.  I have a glock g26 but the width of the gun may be a bit wider than I want to use and in all honesty I don't shoot that gun that well for some reason.  I thought about trying a single stack glock but my hesitation is would I shoot them any better or not.... would like to explore other options you guys recommend me looking at.

I do not want something like a LCP or keltec, to small to use effectively for me.

My list so far to consider/handle in person:

Subcompact Sig P320

Glock G36

Glock G43

Springfield XD-S

not set on a specific round, but do want larger than 380.  I don't have any 380's left so I don't want to ammo up for another round if I can help it.

I do still carry my J-Frames from time to time and may just do that but looking at options and as a wise fella named Ted once said, you can never have to many guns.

Give me some ideals that I might be overlookingWink

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2018 at 10:02
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My cousin carries a Springfield XD-S 3.3 in 9MM while off duty. I've shot it a few times and think it would be a sweet CCW choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2018 at 16:14
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 the new sig 365 may also be an option....

 

Going to run to the shop tomorrow and do the good ole blind feel test....

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2018 at 19:25
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I was just getting ready to suggest looking at the Sig P365.

I have a friend who highly recommends the Keltec. I can't remember exactly which one it is, but it comes in metal and polymer frames and looks like a Glock. 
I'll see if I can more info from him.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2018 at 19:36
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A great all-steel option that is very thin and compact: Kahr K9. I have one in my warm weather carry rotation, and it’s small enough that I hardly notice it’s there in an IWB holster. It has a long trigger pull and reset, but it’s extremely smooth with no stack. Good shooting pistol with extremely low bore axis. My only real complaint is it’s harder to take down than Glocks and such.

I like the Sig P365 too, but it has a really high bore axis and a lot of slide mass for the length of its grip.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2018 at 23:32
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The P320 Subcompact would be a good choice since it would have a similar feel to your other P320s.

I would wait on the P365. I hear it is a hit or miss.

I really like my S&W Shield in 9mm. And the Kahr CW9 is also a nice choice.

And I hear good things about the Ruger LC9.


Edited by Sparky - November/30/2018 at 23:37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2018 at 07:34
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The Sig P365 is a great little pistol, but for one thing.  The bugs are still being worked out of it.

Our local range had one at the rental counter for indoor range use.  The first time I fired it, I was extremely impressed.  It handled beautifully, and was far more accurate than I expected.  Even though I don't have a use for it, I was really tempted to buy one.

The next trip to the range I rented it again.  This time I didn't even get to load it.  The previous shooter had turned it in without noticing (or without reporting) that the slide, barrel and springs were no longer fitting together correctly.  I took it back to the counter, and we (the range man and I) concluded that it was indeed broken and in need  of repair.  

This range (like many) requires that only the ammunition it sells can be used in rental guns.

A good rule is to never buy a new car or gun during the first year after it hits the market.  Let others be on the "bleeding edge" of progress.  The time to buy is after after they've discovered and suffered through the bugs, and the manufacturer has had the chance to make any necessary corrections.

       
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2018 at 11:52
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I'm sorry, it wasn't a Keltec, but the Kahr K9 that RD mentioned that my friend has. It also comes with a polymer frame and it cuts the weight down.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2018 at 13:13
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The polymer frame version of the Kahr K9 is the P9. With the exception of frame material and of course removable grips on the (stainless frame) K9 version, they are essentially the same pistol. 

While I fully concede the P9 is probably superior for carry from a purely practical standpoint due to its lighter weight and slightly thinner grip, I prefer the all-stainless K9 due to the fact it's just a sexy pistol. I have the "Elite 03" version, which has polished slide flats and a few other nice aesthetic touches, and to my eyes, it is one of the nicest looking pistolas on the market today. Mine has Trijicon night sights, and I added a stainless guide rod, G10 grips from Lakeline LLC (https://lakelinellc.com/product-category/kahr-pistol-accessories/pistol-grips/), and I had the front grip strap checkered by Cylinder and Slide. Just a sexy damn pistol!!! The K9/P9 is the smallest 9mm pistol I'm aware of that still allows me to get a comfortable full grip, with my pinky finger wrapped around the grip. Yet, 7+1 capacity isn't bad for its size. It's almost small enough to pocket carry, and disappears in an IWB 5:00 setup. On the plus side, the additional weight of the all-stainless K9 does have a satisfying heft to it, and makes it a sweet, soft shooting gun. It's very comfortable! I'm quite accurate with it. 

Allow me to also take this opportunity to double down on the comment you reference in the OP. My philosophy remains unchanged...indeed, one can never have too many guns!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2018 at 09:19
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 I will check into the Kahrs.... haven't thought of those.  I did get hands on several this weekend.  The 365 and G43 are just to small for my mitts. From a draw I noticed I was never aiming naturally and had to adjust the gun to feel comfortable.  I tried well over 12 options.  I did like the feel of the Glock G36 enough that I bought an old police trade in version.  Got it under $300 so can't go wrong with it just for the price alone.  I'm still looking for lighter and comfortable semi auto but right now I am carrying my S&W 432 until I find something else that has more than 6 capacity and points as good as I do with it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2018 at 10:10
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As Quoted by RofleDude.

Allow me to also take this opportunity to double down on the comment you reference in the OP. My philosophy remains unchanged...indeed, one can never have too many guns!

I almost had this issue over the weekend. There was a match at my club and I didn't really have an appropriate rifle for it. I had something that would fit the rules of our PCC matches, but not the best choice. Now I'm kinda looking for either a PCC or a conversion kit for a modular system.

Now back to our regular scheduled topic.

As somebody who has carried a pistol for over 40 years, I can tell you that even a Walther PPKS gets heavy after many hours of carry. I can also tell you that in today's world, there is a good chance that if you need a pistol to defend yourself, more is going to be better.
I try to balance what I may need with where I'll be, what I'll be doing, and how long I'll be there.Having a good selection to choose from helps. Sometimes I even carry more than one pistol with even more in my vehicle. Lite weight, easy to conceal pistols come in handy a lot, and New York reloads are not out of the question. That's why I like lite weight DA only revolvers. Of course my circumstances are different from most.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2018 at 11:32
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

 I will check into the Kahrs.... haven't thought of those.  I did get hands on several this weekend.  The 365 and G43 are just to small for my mitts. From a draw I noticed I was never aiming naturally and had to adjust the gun to feel comfortable.  I tried well over 12 options.  I did like the feel of the Glock G36 enough that I bought an old police trade in version.  Got it under $300 so can't go wrong with it just for the price alone.  I'm still looking for lighter and comfortable semi auto but right now I am carrying my S&W 432 until I find something else that has more than 6 capacity and points as good as I do with it.

Lakeline LLC also offers a nice machined aluminum magazine base for Kahr magazines that adds 1 extra round of mag capacity while at the same time slightly lengthening the grip and giving you more room for your hand. (https://lakelinellc.com/product-category/kahr-pistol-accessories/magazine-parts-accessories/). So, with the base, a K9/P9 would hold 8+1 of 9mm, which is pretty respectable capacity for a single stack pistola of its size.

Kahr also makes the MK9 which is smaller still, and it is a sweet little gem of a pistol, but I suspect you will likely find it too small for you if you didn't like the G43, given it's currently the smallest 9mm pistol made now that the Rohrbaugh R9 is no longer in production.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2018 at 12:25
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I used to have a Keltec P11. Loved you could get a 12 round mag for it. Gun needs a "fluff and buff" if you plan to carry and the trigger pull is to heavy to suit me. Their PF9 is ok, but I think it kicks pretty badly. I think there are more quality options out there. 

I have a Ruger LC9. I like it alot. I think the new striker fire model might be a better option, the trigger pull is long on mine, and I do not like the manual safety, which I leave off. It's thin and very easy to carry. I would guess its probably the thinnest. I sent mine back to Ruger because it shot low. Oh and if you get the finger extension, do not take a mag apart in a room with carpet, because if you don't watch it, you will lose some little piece and then that mag is done until you can get a new part. 

My wife has a shield, and the non safety model would likely be my top choice. Excellant trigger and accuracy. I want to say the mag's confuse me on it, and I often try to insert them backwards if I am not really focused, and if that is true, you would definitely want to train yourself with them. 

I currently carry a Kahr CM9. It is a little thicker than the LC9, but... carries nice. It stays on my ankle. I like the trigger pull, but it is a 3 finger gun. It's smaller than my LC9. Mag's are pricey, but it is a solid gun. 

I had a walther that was a little bigger, which I really liked, but it just didn't work on my ankle unless I wore boot cut jeans all the time. The Kahr works as long as I don't wear "skinny jeans" which at my age would probably make me look out of place. 

My advice to you on any of the really compact guns is to get a very good holster that doesn't make it hard to get ahold of it. If I stick my Kahr in the Desantis softuck I have that fits my LC9 nicely, is I can't get it out of it very well. The grip is to short. The LC9 comes out like a dream tho. But that holster really gets the gun low on my beltline. 

I really want a compact 9 to be free from as many features as possible, It needs to be like a little 38 snub, point and shoot. No grip safety, no manual safety to worry with. No obstruvise mag release, and metal sights. And while I think the grip having a rough texture is a benefit to hanging onto it, its not a benefit to your skin if it rubs on it. 

I carry my Kahr on my ankle all day every day. It bothered me at first but I have gotten used to it and now notice it more if I don't have it. Not the fastest to draw from, but it beats no gun, or having one tucked in my waist that bugs me. And no one ever notices it. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2018 at 13:06
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If you're not opposed to a hammer fired pistol instead of a striker pistol, another good option to consider is the Sig P239 in 9mm. It's a bit long in the tooth design-wise, but it remains a solid, good shooting pistol. I have one, the "SAS" version DA/SA Gen 2 with short reset trigger. I wouldn't consider it a subcompact pistol, rather "compact" or more accurately on the smaller side of "mid-sized," but it may fit you just right if you aren't getting along well with the amount of grip real estate on subcompact guns. 

Comparison-wise, it is .6" taller, .6" longer, and .3" wider than the Kahr K9 (Kahr K9 is 4.5" H X 6" L X 0.9" W vs. Sig P239 @ 5.1" H X 6.6" L X 1.2" W). The P239 weighs 6.5 oz more (29.5 oz vs 23 oz). Like all Sig pistols, it has a fairly high bore axis and a lot more slide mass than the Kahr, so you have to work harder to control muzzle rise. It does, however, have a lighter, shorter trigger pull and reset. 

The Kahr trigger could be compared to a nice DAO revolver trigger. Travel and reset is longer, but it's really smooth during the whole travel. I really like the way the fire control system works on the Kahr. It's a very safe, point and shoot design without the trigger tab found on Glock triggers. If you look at how their ingenious "double" cam (what they call their "safe cam" trigger system) works, you will understand why the use of a trigger tab is totally unnecessary. One lobe of the cam loads up and finally releases the striker sear while the other lobe of the cam sequentially depresses the striker safety block. It's simple and reliable.

If you want a truly subcompact pistol and you still find the Kahr K9/P9 doesn't suit your grip well, you're likely not going to find any subcompact class pistol that suits you. The P239 is just enough larger that I think you'd be fine with its grip. It kinda bridges the gap between mid size and compact/subcompact pistols.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/03/2018 at 14:29
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 I have a 239... like it but again I'm looking to save weight....  The Kahr K9 has peaked my interest for weight savings......Want to put hands on one now.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2018 at 10:44
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 I found a Kahr p40 really cheap so I went ahead and got it on the way.... to cheap not to pick up, could resell and make money. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2018 at 19:57
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I have a kahr PM40 and it is okay. I have several friends with 40s and 45s and all have issues. I do not recommend plastic Kahrs any longer.

Let us know how it goes. Put several hundred rounds through it before you trust it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2018 at 21:41
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I have a kahr PM40 and it is okay. I have several friends with 40s and 45s and all have issues. I do not recommend plastic Kahrs any longer.

Let us know how it goes. Put several hundred rounds through it before you trust it.

Originally Kahr had issues with their polymer frame pistols, reportedly due to flexing of the polymer and causing the rail inserts to be misaligned and bind on the slide. They have since changed their polymer formulation. I don't know whether this has eliminated their issues or not.  

I'm a big fan of their all-stainless guns. The all-steel Kahrs generally have a good reputation for reliability.

I have 3 Kahr pistols, a K9, an MK40, and an MK9, all stainless framed. I've had no issues with any of them. My wife carries a CW9, which is their "budget" model polymer frame. She has 600 - 700 rounds through it, also with no failures of any kind. Example of one, I realize, but I can't cuss that CW. Still, that is the only plastic Kahr I have any extensive first hand experience with.

G, definitely give us some feedback on your P40. More than likely, the trigger will probably take some time for you to get used to and master, if you're used to the typical triggers on most striker fired guns. Being a true DAO that performs most of the striker cocking prior to break, it is a long pull and long reset. However, it is smooth, and I think overall it's a pretty good trigger. But, it does seem to be a very polarizing design. It can be compared to a really nice double action revolver trigger.


edit: corrected typo.


Edited by RifleDude - December/05/2018 at 22:11
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/05/2018 at 21:50
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I'll be ringing it out on range prior to carry.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2018 at 07:33
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 Found a decent little kydex IWB holster for the p40 last night to try before ordering a nice one.  Want to get range time and carry around the house some prior to investing in a holster that's over half what I paid for the pistol.  If the gun shoots well, reliably, and feels good... I'm hoping this will be viable lightweight carry option.... should be about 21oz loaded if my calculations are correct.... i'll put it on the scales to see once loaded.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2018 at 10:00
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Just a thought, have you looked at a Ruger LCR in .327 Federal Magnum? You get 6 shots in a lite weight DA only revolver, the .327 Fed. Mag. is an impressive round.
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 I got my 32H&R Mag S&W 432....   Still looking for a 332 to put away but you won't sell me one!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2018 at 11:36
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You're right Evil Smile
That's why I suggested the Ruger.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/06/2018 at 16:10
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CCW guns I have bought over the years.

Good things Not so good things
Kahr PM9 light & small snappy recoil
Kahr MK9 small & fairly light same size as PM9 just heavier
Kimber Ultra Aegis II Shoots well none
Sig P238 small & light 380ACP is a bit under powered
Sig P938 small & light none
S&W 640 small & fairly light 38 Special is a bit under powered


I have carried the S&W 640.  I really want more than 5 rounds and more stopping power than a short barrel 38 special.  The 640 is fairly heavy for its size, and I would consider an air weight if a snubby revolver is the way I wanted to go.

The PM9, P238, & P938 are all so small they are easy to conceal, and so light they are easy to carry.  I have both OWB and IWB leather holsters.  I carry the P938 a lot when I am wearing work clothes because it so small it doesn't print much.

When I first got my PM9 it would fail to return to battery, even after 500 rounds.  Kahr sent me a new barrel and recoil assembly and it worked great after that.  I got a sweet deal on a used MK9.  Didn't need it but the deal was too good to pass up.  For carry I would choose the PM9 over the MK9 just because it is so light you can forget you have it on.  I have good leather OWB & IWB holsters for them.

I have carried my Ultra Aegis II a lot.  I have a good leather IWB holster, so it carries well.  I carry it a lot when I'm not working because I can wear clothing that works.

I have a couple of compact 1911's that I have carried.  With good holsters and proper dress they conceal well.

I guess I'm fairly lucky as all of these guns performed reliably enough to be used for carry.



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I just can't get a warm and fuzzy over revolvers as a carry gun. First, even the smallest revolvers are way chunkier through the center than a semiauto due to the cylinder, and therefore, less comfy and concealable to carry. Second, you only get 5 or 6 shots max, which isn't very "size to firepower ratio" efficient. Third, reloading a revolver compared to simply dropping an empty mag and slamming a fresh mag in place is way too slow even in best case scenario should you need the extra shots. Fourth, unless you're Jerry Miculek, revolvers involve slower follow-up shots and have much higher bore axis. Fifth, the best semi-autos available today are no less reliable than revolvers. That hasn't always been the case, but it is today. Sixth, with today's bullet technology, 9mm, .40, and .45 are no less effective in actual real world terminal performance than any revolver round short of .44 mag class, with more rounds on tap, and better controllability.
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