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Deer Hunting Scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 15:27
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Originally posted by scoper scoper wrote:


i may be missing something on the price, but in my search the 4a ERi was more expensive than the Visus


It's possible you're looking at an ERi with the exposed elevation turret (BDC) which would add around $150 to the price I think.

As others have said, it depends on how you're going to use your rifle, if you want to dial elevations or use capped turrets and a ballistic reticle, or if you hunt at ranges of 300yds or less, in which case I would say a basic plex or #4 with capped turrets is perfect.

As to fixed scopes, just my opinion, but I wouldn't use a variable with a low end greater than 2.5x, 3 x max, for hunting deer if you're doing any kind of stalking or moving through cover.

Hunting from a blind over open fields, or sheep hunting or the like is a different story, but I've often had shots where low magnification was critical to success.
Now if 2.5 is max for a variable, I don't see why a fixed 6x scope changes anything? I never hunt on foot with a variable turned to 6x, and would consider it a handicap.

Again, this is just for me and the style of hunting and terrain I typically frequent.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 15:30
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Where I will be hunting, I can't imagine taking an ethical shot over 300 yds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 15:38
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Vortex Razor HD LH in either 2-10x40 or 3-15x42 configurations.

ILya

koshkin, would you consider the 1-8x32 for my situation, or is there a specific reason why you left that off of your list? thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 15:52
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Within 300 yds any kind of ballistic range compensation is basically an affectation.


Zero for maximum rise over line of sight of 3" and adjust your hold by just a few inches depending on the range.

I have used this method out to 340 yards with a plex reticle and never had any doubt when pulling the trigger, but you do need to be sure of the range as you get further out as bullet drop accelerates quickly.

If I'm being honest, I've started dialling for range more for the challenge as I shoot at a range with 800 metre targets, and I hope to be able to take advantage of my increased capabilty in the field if a situation presents itself.

Before a Leupold vx or fx-3 I would consider a Swarovski Z3, as they are a very similar scope in configuration, 1" tube, sub 12 ounces, compact ocular for low mounting with a 90° bolt throw, capped turrets (though the Leupold does have a CDS turret for their VX3 line).

I've been close to buying a Z3 a few times, but the eye relief is quite short, no matter what the numbers say, it's significantly shorter than many competitors, and I find the eyebox a bit too touchy.

I believe the Z3 3-10 is actually 3.3x magnification on the bottom end, the same as the Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10.

I actually sold a VX-3i 3.5-10 recently, just based on the variable eye relief at different magnifications (an issue that the Swarovski Z-3 doesn't share) and the resulting finnicky eyebox.

Just my experience, all of these are very good scopes, though I would lean towards the Vortex Razor HD LH 2-10×42 for a 1" tube, capped turret hunting scope if you can find it for the same price as the Leupold or Swarovski (which I can right now in my neighbourhood).

Shopping is honestly half of the fun, too many choices.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 16:04
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i would rather there be 2-3 realistic options with everyone unanimously voting for the same one Confused
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 16:55
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Scoper, pull the trigger its your scope not ours😂!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 17:01
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i agree. i'm pretty much there. for my shorter range deer hunting purposes, i'm heavily leaning towards the leupold fx-ii 4x33. worst case in a couple of years it just isn't getting the job done and i'll look for something else, but this mistake won't have cost me too much.

though if there's an even better 4x fixed that i haven't considered... Evil Smile

i appreciate everyone's thoughts. i learned a lot through the process.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 17:34
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There are a lot pf 1-4 or 1-5 variables out there, a fixed four, while a popular traditional choice, has too high a low end for close range shooting.

I used to use 2-7 variables, and had good luck with a couple of Bushnell elites in 2-7×32 http://www.bushnell.com/hunting/rifle-scopes/elite-3500/2%E2%80%937x-32mm

These are not bad scopes, better than a Leupold fixed 4x in many ways, and very cost effective.

I think that I would have a hard time going back to the Bushnell because the eye relief is so much poorer than any of the scopes I now own, but I dealt with it when it's what I had, without out too much cursing.

In the real world I feel that the Bushnell Elites have similar eye relief to the Swarpvski Z3 scopes, with slightly, but noticeably inferior optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 21:08
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Originally posted by scoper scoper wrote:

also, are there any "quality" fixed magnification scopes that would be realistically just as good for my purposes? the only options i've really seen are the leupold 4x33 and 6x42. seems these options, at the same magnification, would likely be a huge step down from the visus?

I have the meopta meopro 6x42, and the leupold fx3 6x42.  The meopta is a brighter, clearer scope. Both are under your pricepoint

the R1 and R2 Meopta meostars are excellent scopes in your price range. If you want a fixed power, the R2 8x56 might be a good option.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2018 at 21:19
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Originally posted by scoper scoper wrote:

Where I will be hunting, I can't imagine taking an ethical shot over 300 yds.

what caliber? most standard rifle calibers will shoot flat enough that you will not need any special turrets or reticles for 300 yards, but for guys in the midwest who are limited to those special short range cartridge restrictions, that is a whole other bag of cats. 

edit: oops - i just re-read your 6.5 comment.  you would not need any special long-range features on a scope for that cartridge at only 300 yards. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 03:08
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Originally posted by probably probably wrote:

Originally posted by scoper scoper wrote:

also, are there any "quality" fixed magnification scopes that would be realistically just as good for my purposes? the only options i've really seen are the leupold 4x33 and 6x42. seems these options, at the same magnification, would likely be a huge step down from the visus?

I have the meopta meopro 6x42, and the leupold fx3 6x42.  The meopta is a brighter, clearer scope. Both are under your pricepoint

the R1 and R2 Meopta meostars are excellent scopes in your price range. If you want a fixed power, the R2 8x56 might be a good option.

8x56 is a very handy scope if the light is a bit low
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 07:37
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 It is always pretty interesting to read these threads and I always come away with a "wow" we all have different types of hunting. For our hunting here, I could not get by with a 4x or 6x scope. Our deer come in so late at times that the only way I can see them is cranking it up to 8x-10x or maybe 12x and the deer are only 85 -90 yrds away. On 4x, you can't even see them at all.

I hunt with Leica binoculars also. And I had a Leica ER 2.5-10x42 and had deer in at 50 yrds that I could see good with my bino's but not at all with that scope. All of my S&B I have been able to see about the same as I can with my bino's. There was some good deals on the sample list a little while back, but I haven't looked on there recently. You may want to look at it across the board, I have gotten some good deals on some practically new condition scopes there.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 08:09
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thx cbm. i hadn't looked at that website yet. definitely helpful for me to be able to filter and sort that easily.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 08:59
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 If I am understanding cbm correctly, he is saying his scopes get brighter as magnification increases.    Of the hundreds of scopes I have used over the years, every single one gets less bright as magnification increases - so low light hunting is done at the bottom of the mag range rather than the top.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

If this is to be a hunting rifle and max shot in low light is 300, you don't need a complicated reticle.  If you will be using for longer ranges in the day, it might be nice, but isn't mandatory.

Be aware that good illumination is good, and bad illumination is useless; and different companies enjoy different levels of success at this.  If you need illumination, ask about that specifically.  You mentioned Nightforce before: their old illumination was an on/off and to adjust intensity, you had to remove the cap and use a tiny screwdriver to adjust.  It was a pain and could not be done well in field conditions.  That illumination sucked.  Just as an example.

Carry on.
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 I didn't say it got brighter on higher powers. And I understand how the exit pupil works. And sometimes when I am hunting in fields, it helps to back the power down some. But hunting in the woods late, if you had a 4x or 6x fixed power scope, you would have to get down and leave while the deer are coming in sometimes, because you would not be able to see them. But with most of the alpha range scopes I have used, you can go to 8-10-12x and zoom in on them. Since I started using these Schmidt and Benders, I can even count points on a bucks rack (whereas, if I back it down 4x or something, like I said, you could even tell a deer is out there).

Maybe it's just South Carolina pine thickets!! Lol

 

 



Edited by cbm - June/05/2018 at 09:27
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 09:58
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Originally posted by scoper scoper wrote:

Thanks for your input Tip69. Is there a specific scope that you would recommend?

I hunt with a Browning BAR in 30-06 and I have a Kahles 2.5-10x50 and it is perfect!  these are not made anymore, so doubt you could find one.  For both my Son's... I bought them Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40.. and they are also excellent.. but also, not made any longer.  

i would seriously consider that Vortex Koshkin recommended.  I own a pair of Vortex bino's per Koshkin's recommendation!

Here are two that I would consider if I didn't like the view thru the Vortex... off the samplelist.com

Zeiss 2.5-10x50 Diavari $1,299

Zeiss 3-15x50 Conquest HD5 $899.99

Bausch & Lomb 2.5-10x40 $249.99

Swarovski 4-12x50 Z3 $749.99




Edited by Chris Farris II - June/05/2018 at 10:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 10:45
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I would also consider the Swarovski Z3 3-10x42. They are under $800 and the glass is phenomenal. For 300 yards and in you don't need anything with a turret or any more magnification. The Vortex and Leica are very good scopes as well. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 12:54
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" '...under $800!!!!'




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 15:03
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Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

 If I am understanding cbm correctly, he is saying his scopes get brighter as magnification increases.    Of the hundreds of scopes I have used over the years, every single one gets less bright as magnification increases - so low light hunting is done at the bottom of the mag range rather than the top.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

If this is to be a hunting rifle and max shot in low light is 300, you don't need a complicated reticle.  If you will be using for longer ranges in the day, it might be nice, but isn't mandatory.

Be aware that good illumination is good, and bad illumination is useless; and different companies enjoy different levels of success at this.  If you need illumination, ask about that specifically.  You mentioned Nightforce before: their old illumination was an on/off and to adjust intensity, you had to remove the cap and use a tiny screwdriver to adjust.  It was a pain and could not be done well in field conditions.  That illumination sucked.  Just as an example.

Carry on.

In 30 years of hunting, I have never seen anyone turn the power UP to see better in low light.  It is always a case of turning the power down to make the image brighter. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 15:56
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This seems unbelievable to me as well, I guess the light works differently over there?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/05/2018 at 19:45
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The light works the same.  The sweetspot of low light performance is different for different people and different light conditions.

For example, for moonless nights you have to be at a lower power than when the moon is out to get the most out of your optics.

Another factor is your eye.  For some people eye pupil does not dilate as much as for others.  The less your eye pupil dilates, the less advantage you get from lower magnification.  The same happens if your eye has not fully dark adapted.  For some people, it takes a long time for their eyes to get dark adapted and if you happen to glance at your phone int he process, you get to start over.

With all that, to me Leica ERi is a better low light scope than the Summit, albeit not by too much.  For CBD, it is the other way around.  Everyone's eyes are a bit different.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2018 at 03:12
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Originally posted by scoper scoper wrote:

Thanks for your input Tip69. Is there a specific scope that you would recommend?

I hunt with a Browning BAR in 30-06 and I have a Kahles 2.5-10x50 and it is perfect!  these are not made anymore, so doubt you could find one.  For both my Son's... I bought them Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40.. and they are also excellent.. but also, not made any longer.  

i would seriously consider that Vortex Koshkin recommended.  I own a pair of Vortex bino's per Koshkin's recommendation!

Here are two that I would consider if I didn't like the view thru the Vortex... off the samplelist.com

Zeiss 2.5-10x50 Diavari $1,299

Zeiss 3-15x50 Conquest HD5 $899.99

Bausch & Lomb 2.5-10x40 $249.99

Swarovski 4-12x50 Z3 $749.99



If you can get the Swarovski 4-12x50 you will have a great scope for deer hunting
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2018 at 03:14
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Originally posted by scoper scoper wrote:

i agree. i'm pretty much there. for my shorter range deer hunting purposes, i'm heavily leaning towards the leupold fx-ii 4x33. worst case in a couple of years it just isn't getting the job done and i'll look for something else, but this mistake won't have cost me too much.

though if there's an even better 4x fixed that i haven't considered... Evil Smile

i appreciate everyone's thoughts. i learned a lot through the process.

For a longer shot I'd want a bit more for choice. 6x42 or 7x50

Scrummy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2018 at 08:10
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 I hate to high jack the guys thread. But I have already clarified it once and will do it again " I never said it got brighter on higher magnification". I never said the exit pupil improved when cranking it up. It is totally a magnification issue. If you guys can shoot a soda can at 100 yrds an hour after dark with a 2x or 4x scope, then I am more than impressed, I certainly can't. And in the total interest of making a completely ethical shot, I want to see the critter I am shooting as well as possible for the conditions. I want to make sure I am shooting a doe or buck or hog. I want to watch it's head go up and down and it's ears twitch. I do not want to be shooting at dark blobs that I don't know if they are facing right to left, or left to right. I guess my eye's are way different, because it takes a really good scope, capable of transmitting a good image on a reasonably high power, with a reticle that I can see well, for me to shoot ethically at 45min- 1 hour after legal sunset(which is legal here).

I have had a lot of scopes. A lot of them crapped out 30 min after sunset on the highest power, then I adjusted down to 8x, to 6x, to 4x or whatever until it was not working at all and I had to leave. I'm just saying the Schmidt and Benders I have been using(and the one 8x56 Classic I sold my friend) all keep on going most of the time even on 8x-10x. I have had to generally leave the deer stand because I ran out of legal time so far, not because my S&B's have stopped working. And I have had a Kahles Helia C 3-12x56, two Swarovski PV 3-12X50, Leica ER 2.5-10X42, Swarovski Z5 5-25X52, Zeiss Diavari 3-9x42, Zeiss Diatil 4x32, about 6-8 Zeiss Conquests, a few Bushnell 4200's and 6500. Weaver Classic Extreme 2.5-10x50. I still have a Nikon Monarch UCC 6x42 that is shockingly good. Many Tasco's, Weaver, Simmons,etc.  And probably some others I am not thinking of. I have been hunting all of my life and at 48 been shooting for at least 43 years when I got my first 22 cal, which was shortly followed up with a hard kicking single shot 20 gauge, that was a character builder. Smile 

 

 

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Originally posted by cbm cbm wrote:

  For our hunting here, I could not get by with a 4x or 6x scope. Our deer come in so late at times that the only way I can see them is cranking it up to 8x-10x or maybe 12x and the deer are only 85 -90 yrds away. On 4x, you can't even see them at all.


This is the confusing statement, and each time I read it, it makes less sense.


You say they come in "so late at times that the only way I can see them is cranking up...".  Usually later means darker, so they come in when it is very dark (and thus the 85-90 yards part) and to get a better view of the animal in very low light, you increase magnification.  That is the opposite of what I do: as light fades, I decrease magnification to get a better view.  at very last light, the best view is always - for me, at least - on the lowest magnification.


Then again, I am in Texas, and lose legal shooting time before I run out of light to shoot.  


If it works for you, keep doing it.


To scoper, if you can find an old Swaro AV, it is money well spent.  

If I were putting a 1-6 on something that didn't have to be hella light, it would be the Vortex 1-6 HD, I have one that moves around on guns and it is amazingly clear and adequately bright, and they got the illumination right.

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