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djcooke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djcooke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 00:20
You think 600 yds with a 300 would be an unethical shot on game? What do you think the longest reasonable game shot should be?   
Thanks 
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djcooke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djcooke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 00:26
Great thanks for the info do they ever go on sale? 
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billyburl2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 00:33
Honestly, you just missed a big sale! They do turn up used once in awhile in the $1000-1100 range.
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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BobbyH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobbyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 07:46
The Leupold MK 4 ERT 4.5-14x50 is a FFP and close to your magnification range and cost.  Great scope and as close to an all American as you can get.
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BobbyH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobbyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 07:52
And this one also.
 
TMR Leupold 6.5-20x50 Mark 4 ER/T 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU64665
  • Matte
  • Tactical Milling Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • First Focal Plane Reticle
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
$1,699.95 < id="ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl10_Price_VS" name="ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl10$Price$VS" value="VoJnZiFxYZHGQHK7Wm+LW1lNtPLczZlcoC6MtM16P5SJ4j4l31UZgjgtCPt7uy3P" ="">
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Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 08:20
Originally posted by BobbyH BobbyH wrote:

The Leupold MK 4 ERT 4.5-14x50 is a FFP and close to your magnification range and cost.  Great scope and as close to an all American as you can get.

Actually, no, but they would like you to think so.  I recall the time when Leupold boxes said "Proudly made in America", that ain't the case for many of their scopes now.

And, as stated previously, US Optics actually does make their scopes here.

On a military/LE discount, Leupold is a good scope; at/about list price, you can do much better for much less money.

On the long-range hunting question, I would simply ask if you have ever taken a 600 yard shot on game, from an improvised shooting position?  I'd follow that by asking if you have taken any shot on any target at or beyond 600 yards?  As I said in the beginning, don't set up the rifle for the 600 yard shot if 99.9% of all shots taken will be at 100-200 yards.

Also, keep in mind the tactical scopes will be, in most cases, much larger and heavier than a similar hunting scope.  A very large hunk of glass atop a not heavy rifle can pose challenges for both carry and use.

Bushnell makes a new 3.5-20x50, I have seen one but not used one.  At first glance, there were things I liked about it. 

300WM is a great caliber, I am a decent shot, and I don't take 600 yard shots on game - unless it's pigs.


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ccoker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ccoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 14:19
I would have to agree with these comments and will add:

- don't get hung up on magnification, a higher quality scope with better glass and reliable internals trumps more magnification. Lots of time people think they need more magnification to "see better" when in reality lower power and better glass will serve them better

- practice, if you are not 1000 % confident you got the shot, don't take it. Only way to do that is practice and learn the gun. I would call being able to hit a grapefruit every time the goal.
I have no problem hitting that size target from a bench with a hunting rifle at 500 yards.
Even with a 6x scope

In the field, even from a solid blind that would be pushing it to be 1000% perfect every time.

You start to get into "hold or dial" discussions as well

A lot of variables come into play as the yardage increases and with an animal that can step as you squeeze the trigger on that perefect shot and the bullet time in flight means a gut shot instead of a shoulder or heart shot.







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jonoMT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 15:02
I'm not passing judgment on long-range hunting...other than to say I won't do it again. I don't want to take the chance of ruining the meat. Rancid Coolaid brought up a good point about tactical scope weight, but aside from that I encourage you to set up for shots twice as long as you will REALISTICALLY expect to take on game. In other words, if you can learn to shoot well @ 600 yards (grapefruit, whatever) your confidence and ability in 300-yard shots will be awesome.
 
I used to own a Premier Heritage 3-15 and while I loved the mag range it was 38 oz and always felt like a bear to lug around. I sold that, tried running an SS 5-20 for a while and while I think it's a great scope I was always wishing it could be had in a 3-12 or 4-16. When the Premier LT came out @ 25 oz. I went back to that. In the field it's left on 3X unless there's a need to dial up. I do like to shoot out to 1000-1200 yards on occasion so the 15X is good. But out to 600 it's not a huge improvement over the SS 3-9.
 
I used one of those side-by-side with a NF 2.5-10X32 (a scope I really liked for a long time) and the SS 3-9 held its own.
Reaction time is a factor...
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BobbyH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobbyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 16:41
I know the Leupold glass is made somewhere else, but isnt the rest of there scope line made here.  I know that none of there current bino product is made here.
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djcooke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djcooke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 20:52
What is your thought on using a FFP scope for hunting? I figure it would be great because you know each BDC mark stays the same yardage... 
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helo18 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 21:26
I use FFPs on several of my hunting rigs and really like it.
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billyburl2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 21:46
Since I have switched to a FFP scope, I will not own a SFP. It doesn't matter what the application, it will be FFP, or fixed.
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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billyburl2 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 21:52
Originally posted by BobbyH BobbyH wrote:

And this one also.
 
TMR Leupold 6.5-20x50 Mark 4 ER/T 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU64665
  • Matte
  • Tactical Milling Reticle
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • First Focal Plane Reticle
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
$1,699.95 < id="ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl10_Price_VS" name="ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl10$Price$VS" value="VoJnZiFxYZHGQHK7Wm+LW1lNtPLczZlcoC6MtM16P5SJ4j4l31UZgjgtCPt7uy3P" ="">
That lueppy finally got on the ball and offered some models is great. But why put MOA knobs on a scope with a mil reticle?
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 07:40
Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

Since I have switched to a FFP scope, I will not own a SFP. It doesn't matter what the application, it will be FFP, or fixed.
I kinda agree its hard to go back to SFP but for a range gun only that is just for plinking at known distances SFP still has it advantages.  The center aiming point can sometimes be finer on SFP vs FFP depending on the scopes.  Case in point my 223 is now sporting a PST 4-16 SFP, the FFP PST at 16x had a much larger area of cover at 16X than the SFP according to Vortex so I went with it.  I always have my range finder with me on that gun.  Some application can still use SFP with benefits.
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BobbyH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobbyH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 07:51
Actually the 6.5-20x50 MK4 ER/T can be bought with M5 knobs.  Which is .1 mil click, just like most other scopes.  Big Grin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 08:15
Originally posted by djcooke djcooke wrote:

What is your thought on using a FFP scope for hunting? I figure it would be great because you know each BDC mark stays the same yardage... 


I am just back from a South African hunt, took a 300WM with an FFP 3-15X scope, loved it.  For making quick adjustments, in windage or elevation, FFP is the way to go.

Be aware that all FFP scopes and reticles are not created equal.  Some reticles are very hard to see on the low end, or are obtrusively large on the top end.

As I frequently hunt hogs in low light, I try to get FFP reticles that are illuminated.  Without illumination, you can lose the reticle just when you want it most, in low light.

On a hunter, especially a gun that might see widely varying shots, FFP is a great tool.  If you sit in a stand 100 yards from a feeder, it really won't do much for you.
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sgt. Poulton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sgt. Poulton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 08:46

Falcons comes with dust on lenses pretty often.

Regards.

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djcooke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djcooke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 10:12
OK thanks so are there any FFP scopes under $1000 that you guys would recommend? If FFP doesn't fit in the budget what SFP has the next best BDC? 

The other theory is if you are shooting far you will be on max power so if you know your BDC at that power setting your fine. 

the 300 Win mag sited in at 200 is +1 at 100yrd and - 7 at 300 so when hunting you aim for the kill zone or a pit high for almost all shots and if it is past 300 yrds you would likely be at max power 16 to 20 on the scopes I am looking at. Right? 

What power would you dial up to on a 350-400 yrd large game shot?   


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djcooke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djcooke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 10:31
I also really like the small circles in the reticle so you don't have the problem of it covering the target... I see it on the Nikon Buck master they just call is BDC is there a name for that? What are your thoughts on that type of reticle? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 10:33
It has been said, "All generalizations are bad, even this one."

There is no, "at what power should I be for a specific range shot", it simply isn't like that.  Hunting is incredibly dynamic, animals never do what you want them to, conditions never favor you, shots are always improvised - and all generalizations are bad.

First and foremost, ANY BDC or drop reticle or knob needs to be verified with YOUR gun, YOUR ammo, YOUR optic, and at actual range.  I have yet to see a generic BDC knob or reticle that is spot-on at anything over about 400 yards.  

One additional consideration is that good glass makes the need/want to crank up the power diminish quite a bit.  At lower power, you have much more field of view, which is a good thing - because animals move before, during, and sometimes after the shot.

My honest recommendation would be something like a 3-9 SS, and learn mil math.  Beyond that, move to a dedicated hunting scope and spend time on the range learning where rounds fall on your reticle of choice.
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