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Fixed vs Variable in Low Light

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    Posted: November/29/2016 at 11:53
Warning: long winded intro. Those with A.D.D. should skip to the Cliff's notes section below.

As I was texting my cousin in his deer stand this season, my wife out of the blue tells me she might like to go deer hunting next year. (She loves venison) She can count on one hand the times she's shot a gun, and I haven't been hunting in 20 years, so I'm undoubtedly rusty, very rusty. I'm considering buying the gear for this endeavor as a Christmas gift, but the cost is adding up quickly. I'm thinking we'd need three rifles and scopes to do this right, two hunting rigs and a target rig to help her learn to shoot and for me to shake the rust off. The target rig I've got a decent handle on, at least the optic part. While the purchase of the hunting rigs is some time off, I'd like to have a good idea in my mind of what to buy in case a great sale comes along or something pops up on the sample list.

My wife can be a bit excitable, and hasn't the greatest situational awareness in the world, so gear that's simple to use helps maximize her chance of success. I too have a preference for simple gear.  I'd much rather be a proficient user of simple gear than a fumbling user of complex gear. Murphy's law ensures that if I have a variable power scope, I'll use it to scan the tree line at high magnification, then forget to turn it down. Just then a trophy buck will walk out of the woods 30 yards from me and I won't be able to target it in time because I've forgotten to turn my magnification down. So, all other things being equal, I'd actually prefer a good fixed 6x scope to the more common 3-9 or 3-12 configurations. That puts me in a bit of a conundrum.

I've been reading ILya Koshkin's opticsthoughts.com site with great interest, and I'm a big fan of his "meat and potatoes" philosophy. In his review of the 10x42 Sightron and SWFA scopes he says "You often get better quality for the money since the whole system is less complex and easier to optimize (although with fixed power scopes being less popular than in the past, the economies of scale are working against you.)" So, theoretically the simpler optical design of a fixed scope should give you higher optical quality at the same price, but the fact that manufacturers sell so many more variable scopes will allow them to amortize the design and tooling costs over greater production numbers, lowering the cost of variable power scopes. So my question is, how much value do you get in a fixed power scope? Do you get any benefit choosing a fixed power in mid priced ($300-$600) hunting scope?

Here in Minnesota deer are often taken at the limits of legal light, so a scope's low light performance is paramount. I've seen said many times that objective size is important for low light performance and that makes sense, but factors like glass and coatings obviously play a role. I'm sure there are some 40mm scopes which outperform most 50mm scopes in low light. But this adds to the fixed versus variable confusion. Fixed 6x scopes with objectives larger than 42mm seem very rare, while variables of similar magnification with 50mm or even 56mm objectives are readily available in the same price range.

As an example, Meopta offers three scopes in their MeoPro range which I might consider. The 6x42 and the 3-9x50 seem to be priced identically at $600 (street). Presumably the 6x42 performs better in categories like sharpness, contrast and color fringing, but what about low light? Doesn't the 50mm objective give the 3-9x50 an advantage? I'm willing to deal with moderate increases in artifacts, especially at the perimeter of the sight picture, if it means better low light performance. I'm also willing to deal with a magnification knob which I might mis-adjust for the circumstances.

My second question is about the point of diminishing returns. There's a 3-9x40 scope in the aforementioned MeoPro line which costs $150 less than the 6x42 and 3-9x50 offerings. That scope I believe is re-branded as a major retailer's store brand, and frequently on sale for less than half the price of the 6x42 and 3-9x50. I took a look through said major retailer's scope this weekend and initial impressions were very positive, though in the brightly lit store it's obviously impossible to evaluate low-light performance. How much practical improvement in performance can I expect for the substantial increase in cost of the 3-9x50 or 6x42 options? How many extra minutes of visibility through the scope at dawn and dusk will I really get? This is not a prestige purchase for me, it's a purely utilitarian device.

I'm not wedded to Meopta either. The SWFA SS has an enviable reputation for quality and value, and the 6x42 version is right in my price range. I'd deal with the target turrets and the heavy weight if its the best value for my needs. The IOR Valdada 6x42 seems to have a good reputation, but like the higher-end Meoptas, it's at the upper end of my price range. There's also the Leupold FX3 6x40, which I suspect is overpriced given the Leupold name, and its field of view is fairly poor, but if you guys say it's a standout performer in low light I'll consider it. I'm also not opposed to trolling for some used gear, say the old Nikon Monarch 6x42 or Sightron 6x42 scopes which have gone out of production. I suspect they could be a great buy.

When it comes to reticles, I have a preference for evenly divided reticles like mil-dot for ranging and holdover. I don't prefer ballistic type reticles as variables like caliber and bullet weight make them less useful. Any complex reticle is supurfuluous at Minnesota deer ranges, but a mil-dot type might be useful if we choose to hunt the western plains.  Really a good narrow centered heavy duplex reticle is probably the best.

Basically my priorities come down to this:

- Low light performance

- Value for money

- Simplicity

- Field of view (if fixed power)

- Light weight

Help me out with a short list of candidates, and thanks so much for your help!


Cliff's notes:

Looking for good, high-value scope for deer hunting in the Minnesota woods. Emphasis on low-light performance, simplicity and light weight. Prefer fixed 5-7 power for simplicity. Budget ~$450.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 17:13
Hunting pigs at night screams thick or illuminated reticles and large objective lenses.  Meopta is a good palce to start, but it is hard to find much in the sub-$450 range with Meopta.  That having been said, I think you could do really well with MeoPro 6x42 or MeoStar 7x56RD, if you can stretch your budget sufficiently.

In terms of overall image quality in low light, there is little to differentiate similarly priced fixed and variable scopes, so I would not occupy myself with that too much. 

Another option, which also involves stretching your budget a bit (but less than with Meopta) is Leupold VX-R 3-9x40.  While optically, it is not as good as the Meopta, it is very respectable and the illuminated reticle will prove extremely valuable.  In low ight in overcast areas, reticle visibility is often a bigger problem than target visibility.

Leupold FX-3 is a very good design as well that is actually in your price range.  While personally, I would rather lean toward the options above, a 6x42 FX-3 with a heavy duplex reticle is a very respectable way to go.

If I were you, I would spend some time gong through the samplelist.

ILya




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwbarnette13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 17:57
I personally think it would be a waste of money to build 3 rifles. If you just want 3 build 3. But if your goal of one is to teach your wife to shoot, then I say decide the two rifles you want for hunting and spent the extra from the third rifle on better scopes for the two. Then practice with said rifle so as to be more comfortable with it. You could buy a lower power scope with the same retical to practice with but I would only buy two rifles and use the extra money making them to my exact desire.

It is better to be more comfortable with your primary than to have a Secondary you wish you had brought to the woods...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gpshumway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 20:21
Thanks for the reply, ILya.

I'm not sure where you got nocturnal pig hunting, some other post maybe?  I'm talking about white tail deer hunting.  The legal limits are half an hour before sunrise and half an hour after sunset.  Here in the north woods twilight lasts a while.

From your comments it seems the point of diminishing returns I'm seeking is actually at or above my preferred $600 maximum, is that correct? When one steps up in price what benefits in low light does one get?  I'm assuming the $1250 S&B 6x42 is an excellent scope, but that I'd need to see it side by side with the Meopta 6x42 to see the difference, am I correct?  Basically I'm looking for a scope one step above the "I can tell without comparing side by side" level.  Make sense?

The MeoStar 7x56RD looks like an excellent scope, it has a FOV only slightly narrower than a good 6x, and wider than the Leupold FX-3.  Problem is I can't seem to find it anywhere, does SWFA carry it but not list it on the website?  I realize this is SWFA's forum and I don't want to step on their toes.  When you say "stretch the budget", how far exactly?

dwbarnette-
You may be right about the target gun, but there were a lot of factors behind considering it.  It would be a heavy barrel .223 to allow for lots of target practice without barrel heat causing POI shift.  This means it would be heavier than I'd really like to lug into the woods or shoot off hand, but would also be in a cartridge which is a little light for taking northern white tails.  I of course chose .223 because quality ammo is about half the cost of any other center fire caliber (Hornady steel match) 

Deer season won't start until next November and I'd likely sell the .223 target gun to finance the hunting guns if I felt it had served its purpose.  I'm not planning on buying the hunting guns until next fall and we're sure it's something we want to commit to. The target gun would be the Christmas present.  But, if the optic transfers from the target gun to one of the hunting guns, so much the better.  Make sense?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 20:34
First please check on your state hunting laws to determine what calibers are legal to use for deer there.  I will suggest you purchase a Tikka T3 rifle in 7mm08 this is a 308 case necked down to 7mm.
If you are unable to find that step up to a 30-06 because there are many choices of factory ammo suitable for different purposes.  I would set the Tikka rifle up with one of these two scopes, and I would zero it for 200 yds then practice at 50,  100,  200, 300 to know where it hits at those distances.
Trijicon 1-6x24 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope Trijicon 1-6x24 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR25C200090
  • Matte
  • Red Triangle Post
  • 30mm
  • Trijicon Logo Sticker
  • Lenspen
  • Set of Lenscaps
  • AccuPoint Manual
  • Warranty Card
$1,190.00

Trijicon 2.5-12.5x42 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope Trijicon 2.5-12.5x42 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR26C200107
  • Matte
  • Green Triangle Post
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Trijicon Logo Sticker
  • Lenspen
  • Set of Lenscaps
  • AccuPoint Manual
  • Warranty Card
$1,105.00


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote urbaneruralite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 20:42
My wife shoots the deer with the scope on whatever mag level it was when handed to her. Just get a variable and leave it turned down. She killed her first at around 150+ yards with the scope set to 1.5x. Drilled it perfectly and had no idea there was another way.

I will say this and I'm not trying to be impolite. Women are more likely to have bucks approach them at very close range. A fixed 6x or even 4x will leave her with a scope full of brown and no way of knowing where to hold. Most long time hunters I know have at least one story of trying to sight down the side of the barrel because 3x was too much. My wife has more than one story like that and she doesn't hunt much. Her next scope will start at 2x.

If you're trying to contain spending, I would suggest a .22lr sporter matched to the deer rifle. Put a picatinny rail on both and swap the scope back and forth. Good scope, good rings, good rest and there's nothing to it the once a year you do it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dwbarnette13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 20:45
Another option is the Howa 1500(I own one myself) with heavy barrel. I have less than 500 with rifle bipods and scope mount. It comes in many different calibers. I plan to put the 10x42 SFWA SS Classic for a good med-long range with good mad light.
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Med light
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 20:50
For the second rifle -one for her -  I would pick a Savage and note the AXIS  XP comes in pink "Muddy Girl" in a 7mm08  I would use Talley ringmounts http://swfa.com/1-C1432.aspx
Redfield 2-7x33 Revolution Rifle Scope Redfield 2-7x33 Revolution Rifle Scope
Stock # - RED67080
  • Matte
  • 4-Plex
  • 1"
$179.95

If you want something to practice with that would be a 22 rifle but be sure you can find ammo first and I would probably pick a Ruger 10-22 possibly the take down model but that depends on what kind of money you want to invest  If 22 ammo is too difficult to find look for a used  SKS  that shoots  7.62x39 Russian cause the ammo is really cheap and it has very light recoil being semi auto,  these can be quite suitable for deer with open sights with a little practice. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 20:54
I use this scope a lot for anything in low light - coyotes etc.
Trijicon 1-4x24 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope Red Triangle Trijicon 1-4x24 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR24R
  • Matte
  • Red Triangle
  • 30mm
$935.00

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gpshumway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 23:29
I'd rather not turn this into a discussion of rifles and cartridges.  My wife would kill me if I suggested a pink gun because she's a girl, especially a cheap pink gun.  Bad juju. 

Minnesota allows any center fire rifle with caliber greater than .22 for deer hunting (.224 counts), so while I technically can use a .223 Remington to hunt deer, it's not my preferred cartridge. 

But that's all for later.  I want to talk scopes here, in particular those for low-light shooting in the $300-$600 range.  The field in that range is huge, how do I narrow it?  

From ILya's comments he likes Meopta for low light, and there's not much benefit to fixed power. so let's stick with Meopta for a moment.  How much performance is lost stepping down from the MeoPro 6x42 to the MeoPro 3-9x40? With the current sale the 3-9x40 is less than half the price.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2016 at 23:42
They are both meopros, so i dont think there is going to be much difference.

I have a meopta artemis 3/9xthat was their mid line before they changed it to meopro. Its a good scope, optics a quite good and it has held up well on a 7mag semi auto. For me it has alwys done well in legal shooting time light.

Leupold vx3 and vxr are great scopes too. If you get thr firedot illumintaion it is excellent in low light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote R H Clark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2016 at 10:05

Urimaginaryfrnd

Trijicon 1-6x24 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle ScopeTrijicon 1-6x24 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR25C200090
  • Matte
  • Red Triangle Post
  • 30mm
  • Trijicon Logo Sticker
  • Lenspen
  • Set of Lenscaps
  • AccuPoint Manual
  • Warranty Card
$1,190.00


Trijicon 2.5-12.5x42 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle ScopeTrijicon 2.5-12.5x42 AccuPoint 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - TR26C200107
  • Matte
  • Green Triangle Post
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Trijicon Logo Sticker
  • Lenspen
  • Set of Lenscaps
  • AccuPoint Manual
  • Warranty Card
$1,105.00

These scopes are very interesting to me. I haven't looked at Trijicon in a while because the only scopes I ever looked at had such short eye relief that I was concerned about mounting them on larger calibers than a 223. Both these scopes in the Mill dot reticle seem to represent something that would be very useful to my style of hunting.

Do you or anyone else have any experience with these scopes at last legal hunting light? Looking at the specs of the 1-6 VS the 2.5-12 it looks like the 1-6 has a larger exit pupil at 1X than the 2.5 at low power. Not knowing how that changes through the spectrum I'm just wondering about your impressions of how easy both scopes are to get behind and how they compare in last light hunting.

Also do you know the size of the illuminated dot at 100 yards at full power and the size of the mill dots on the mill reticle. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2016 at 10:27
Originally posted by gpshumway gpshumway wrote:

<span style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">I'd rather not turn this into a discussion of rifles and cartridges.  </span><span style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">My wife would kill me if I suggested a pink gun because she's a girl, especially a cheap pink gun.  Bad juju. </span>
<div style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">
<div style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">Minnesota allows any center fire rifle with caliber greater than .22 for deer hunting (.224 counts), so while I technically can use a .223 Remington to hunt deer, it's not my preferred cartridge. <div style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">
<div style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">But that's all for later.  I want to talk scopes here, in particular those for low-light shooting in the $300-$600 range.  The field in that range is huge, how do I narrow it?  <div style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">
<div style="color: rgb49, 48, 43; font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 16.8px;">From ILya's comments he likes Meopta for low light, and there's not much benefit to fixed power. so let's stick with Meopta for a moment.  <span style="line-height: 16.8px;">How much performance is lost stepping down from the MeoPro 6x42 to the MeoPro 3-9x40? With the current sale the 3-9x40 is less than half the price.  </span>


For the money, I would grab the 3-9x40 MeoPro and be done with it.

Ilya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gpshumway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2016 at 12:37
Thanks, ILya.  I'll pick up the 3-9x40.  

I'm still interested in understanding the current point of diminishing returns in scope performance, and what makes for a good low light scope other than obvious things like an illuminated reticle.  

Just for fun last night I pulled out my old Simmons 4x crossbow scope (from my paintball gun) and looked through it.   I can't have paid more than $75 for this thing.  In the dark it was pretty useless, but I would expect most scopes to be useless at 7:00 pm in Minnesota this time of year.   Looking through it this morning it's not nearly as bad as I expected.  It's fairly awful to get behind and the optics are obviously poor in the outer quarter of the FOV, but the center seems serviceable.  If the other factors were well optimized, I could absolutely live with this level of optical artifacts.  By that I mean if the scope had good low light performance, were easy to get behind, had good FOV for its magnification and had a good reticle (possibly illuminated), the optical performance in the outer quarter of the FOV wouldn't really bother me.  Though I'd certainly be willing to pay more for better performance, that increase in performance wouldn't really help make the hunt more successful.   I'm going to look through the Simmons again tonight half an hour after sunset and see how awful it is.  

Help me understand the physics of low light performance.  
When it comes to light transmission, it seems like all decent scopes are about the same, with coatings that transmist 99.5%+ per lens surface.  So whether it's a $200 Burris Fullfield II or Meopta's new 8x56RD marketed as "Brightness Above all. From Twilight to Dead of Night.", the difference doesn't seem to be light transmission, but other parameters like contrast, MTF and distortion.  

ILya's ancient post here illudes to what actually makes a good low light scope, but doesn't get specific in how to choose one.  
http://www.opticstalk.com/light-transmission-question_topic847.html

How does objective size play into this?  Say you've got two scopes from the same manufacturer, but in different product lines.  Say the scopes are the same price, the lower product range scope is a 3-9x50 and the higher end scope is a 3-9x40, which is likely to give better low-light performance?  I don't want to get too bogged down in brands here, but I think you could pick a couple of Nikons from the higher end Prostaffs and lower end Monarchs which fit the above description.  Weaver makes Grand Slam scopes which present this choice as well.  Which is better for low light, the Grand Slam 3-12x50 or the Grand Slam 3-12x42?  They're within $5 of each other.  

Thanks again for all the input guys.  Regardless of the discussion I suspect I will be very happy with the MeoPro 3-9x40.  

Side note: It looks like Meopta has discontinued the 7x56RD.  It disappeared from their site between yesterday and today, replaced by the 8x56RD marked "New".  
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99.5% per lens surface.  Any scope company that claims that is lying.  I highly doubt that is even possible. 

There is a reason why we pay $1500 for a excellent low light optic.  Just because a company claims their $200 optics has 99% transmission doesn't mean it is comparable to a alpha optic. The lenses are not the same, the coatings are not the same, the optical design is not the same.  There are many levels of lenses and coatings.  It all depends upon how much the manufacturer wants to pay for said lenses and coating. 

My $200 Sightron binos don't even compare to my Meopta HDs in low light or even in day light.  And my Meopta HDs are not as good as my Zeiss victories either.   The difference between the sightrons and the Zeiss is huge, especially in low light. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gpshumway Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/30/2016 at 20:02
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

99.5% per lens surface.  Any scope company that claims that is lying.  I highly doubt that is even possible. 

I suggest you read this thread from 2004 which I quoted above:
http://www.opticstalk.com/light-transmission-question_topic847.html

Every lens has two surfaces and many scopes have five lenses, 99.5% to the tenth power gives the ~95% light transmission quoted by several makers.  It is possible, at least within a narrow range of wavelengths.  Again, read that old thread, it's a good read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2016 at 08:37
3 rifles seems a bit much.

Get a sporter .22lr and a deer rifle.

(22lr: great for learning and developing the principles of marksmanship, cheap to shoot and you don't get physically tired).

Deer rifle, a few practise shots every session and then take it hunting.

Scope wise:

All things being equal, a fixed scope has better light transmission due to less lenses (a little less light gets through a each successive lense).

Reticle: a number 4 or duplex type (thick cross with a thinner middle section) and a single illuminated dot.

For hunting boar in Europe (done at night over bait when light transmission is paramount) the usual choice is a fixed 7x50 or 8x56 scope from Meopta or Swarovski / Schmidt & Bender / Zeiss
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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MeoptaSurujh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MeoptaSurujh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2016 at 09:07
The MeoStar R1 7x56 RD is still produced and available from Meopta, but may not be in stock with Meopta USA or one of their dealers.  The MeoStar R2 8x56 RD has just been released (and now available) and thus the switchover on the Meopta USA website to the "latest and greatest".
Yes I work for Meopta, but I am not here to sell Meopta. Just answering questions and providing reasonable insight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/01/2016 at 09:55
Originally posted by gpshumway gpshumway wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

99.5% per lens surface.  Any scope company that claims that is lying.  I highly doubt that is even possible. 

I suggest you read this thread from 2004 which I quoted above:
http://www.opticstalk.com/light-transmission-question_topic847.html

Every lens has two surfaces and many scopes have five lenses, 99.5% to the tenth power gives the ~95% light transmission quoted by several makers.  It is possible, at least within a narrow range of wavelengths.  Again, read that old thread, it's a good read.


Its easy for any company to publish a number.  There are lots of things that they may do different.  Do they measure for a single wavelength or an average across the entire spectrum?  There are also certain wavelengths that have little affect on what we see.  So they may be bragging up a wavelength that does zero good for us.  Because they don't have the knowledge, or technology to improve the ones that really affect what we see. 

Just because a brand may claim they have 95% total pass though does not mean it is going to look like a Zeiss HT that claims 95% passthrough. 

Often scopes have a lot more than 5 lenses as well.  A least variable scopes.  I bet complicated designs like Swaro Z6 and similar have a lot of lenses.  Then you have mutlicoated vs fully multicoated.  Most lower end scopes do not coat every single lens the same.  So while a couple of their lenses they may claim 99% I bet the others are not. 

I just have a hard time believing many of these statistics.  If Zeiss only claims 95% total light transmission on their best optics, then how is it even possible for a $200 scope to claim the same.

And maybe I am completely wrong, but I think most of the statistics we read are marketing gimmicks.  I own a pair of Zeiss Victory binos and I have looked through virutally all the other alpha brands side by side and many cheaper brands.  I have yet to see anything else have a brighter image to my eye.   
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
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