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Remington 700 bolt head question?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2008 at 17:19
The cartridge follower is what you are looking at when you open the bolt. It is what you load your cartridges onto or down into so to speak. Because the diameter of the cartridge itself is different between a 270 and a 7mm Remington mag, the follower is shaped differently to feed the cartridges and hold the cartridges in place in the magazine well. The feed rails are located underneath the action and are a part of the receiver itself. They too, are different in dimension depending on which family of cartridge the action was designed for.
 
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PS. My gunsmith buddy, Boby Hart (R. W. Hart&Son) once said about opening up feed ramps was kind of funny, but very true. If you make a mistake with the rasp you now have a single shot, not a repeater. Think of it like a haircut. We can make it shorter, but not longer.


Edited by Roy Finn - June/09/2008 at 17:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2008 at 17:47
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

 
Rifle Dude, for reasons the rest of the world is scratching its head over I am set on the 270. There are some practical reasons as well. I have the loading dies, lots of brass and when my daughter goes hunting with me she will carry my current 270 of which we will have plenty of ammo. Specifically loaded for each ofcourse. I must admit though, some of the things I've learned lately have me looking down the road for a future weapon of distance distruction. The potential of me being able to consistantly connect at 1500+ is something that I feel compelled to acheive. And OH! how fun it will be getting there.
 
Rifle Dude, Don't take my continued questions as stubborn persistance. But help me better undestand your advice. Is your concern for changing the b/head consist of proper alignment or heating or over heating the b/body? Maybe its both. Are there other things that come into play. Do you think the tube will warp or bow and and no longer operate in the slide tolerances.
If anyone else has experience in this area, please share also.  Thunbs%20Up
 
Sgt. D, my concerns are mainly that, to be blunt and to the point, I believe it's a collossal waste of time and money.  First of all, good luck finding a smith willing to solder a bushing into the bolt face and re-counterbore and face the bolt.  Then, you'll need to install a Sako extractor, unless the smith also cuts the groove for the factory Remington extractor.  By the time you finish with this, you're potentially looking at a lot of cost, and for what?  Then there's the very real issue of proper feeding.  Even if you completely change the bolt, you still have feed rail issues.  Right now, your feed rails are spaced further from the centerline of the magazine box to accommodate the larger diameter magnum case.  I have never tried converting from magnum to standard -06 family cartridge case, but I would think you'd have a problem with the cartridges popping loose from the magazine rail prematurely during feeding because of the wider span between the magazine rails on either side of the magazine.  You can possibly weld up material and then remachine it back to the proper rail spacing for the -06 family case, but again, why?  This will start to get expensive, especially if you buy a new bolt, when you can just find a used M700 action already designed for the -06 family case for probably around $250 or so.
 
Since you already have a .532" bolt face, if you like .270 caliber, why not just rechamber to .270 Wby?  Or, for another fairly mild-recoiling cartridge offering similar performance to the .270 Wby, but with better SD and BC, go for the .264 Win Mag.  Personally, if it were me, I would just stay with 7mm RM as it was designed for.  With 7mm, you have tremendous bullet selection in a cartridge that offers way more flexibility than .270 Win, along with better bullet selection and not much more recoil.  On top of that, I've found that 7 mags on average gave me better accuracy than the .270's I've worked with.
 
If you're dead set on having another .270, you will come out cheaper just buying a used action in good condition originally chambered for .25-06/.270/.280/.30-06 than to spend all the money for the modifications that will only result in an action not quite as good as one that had never been modified to begin with.  If you just like .277 caliber, chamber it for .270 Wby and have a super fast, flatter shooting .270.  Dies and brass are cheap compared to the expense and heartache you're poised to face by going the route you're wanting to go.
 
Trust me on this... DON'T DO IT!


Edited by RifleDude - June/09/2008 at 17:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2008 at 22:47
Well this dog won't hunt.
 
a smith willing to solder a bushing into the bolt face and re-counterbore and face the bolt.  Then, you'll need to install a Sako extractor, unless the smith also cuts the groove for the factory Remington extractor. 
 
I see now why you were wondering "what was this guy thinking?" When I was thinking this thru (believe it or not) I was under the impression that the bolt head assemblies were available as a seperate unit. Like a firing pin assembly ect. but I have come to the resounding realization that I was wrong!!!. If that had been the case then I thought I would "with careful precision" remove the old and install the new. Though not recommended it is plausable. But after everyone's repeated caution I must concur that a more appropriate option is the way to go. And believe me I do appreciate your (all of you) patient instruction. I'm not from Missouri but I have that "show me" mentality that I know can get tire-some. It's not intentional but it's not easy to escape either. Thanks again for your help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sakomato Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2008 at 23:40

That 270 Weatherby idea is an excellent one, Rifledude.  The only drawback would be the rounded shoulder, kinda don't like those much.  And if you had the barrel chambered to take out the extra throat length common to Weatherby's you would have to be careful not to shoot factory ammo.

I feel about the 7 mag the way pyro feels about the 270, no real good reason, just don't care for them much.  Way back I used to have to track down deer that were shot with the 7 mag, guys would use 140 ballistic tips and sometimes they would get real squirrely on impact.  I suppose with a well constructed 160 gr bullet they would be allright, but still have that bad feeling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 09:08
Originally posted by sakomato sakomato wrote:

That 270 Weatherby idea is an excellent one, Rifledude.  The only drawback would be the rounded shoulder, kinda don't like those much.  And if you had the barrel chambered to take out the extra throat length common to Weatherby's you would have to be careful not to shoot factory ammo.

I feel about the 7 mag the way pyro feels about the 270, no real good reason, just don't care for them much.  Way back I used to have to track down deer that were shot with the 7 mag, guys would use 140 ballistic tips and sometimes they would get real squirrely on impact.  I suppose with a well constructed 160 gr bullet they would be allright, but still have that bad feeling.
 
 
That 270 Weatherby idea is an excellent one, Rifledude.  The only drawback would be the rounded shoulder.
 
I am intrigued but have zero experience with this one I will have to look into it. You raise a valid point, I haven't seen it yet but if I understand what you mean by rounded shoulder. It would make me wonder why.
 
I feel about the 7 mag the way pyro feels about the 270, no real good reason, just don't care for them much. 
 
I'm on the same page here. I have to credit it with past experience though. For elk size game I beleive it is one of the taylor made rounds. For whitetail and smaller it just doesn't have the best rep. Atleast not in this area. I recall several cases were ideal shot placement still resulted in long tracking events and a number of no finds. And I realize thats just going to happen but the 7mm was involved too often. There was a 9yr. period where I kept a log on such events on land I was managing and the 300 came in second. I don't recall 3rd or 4th place but the real culpret appeared to be the use of over weight bullets or heavy controlled expantion rounds. If I recall 85 % of no finds involved a bullet weight of 150gr. or heavier. And a large number of extended tracking events and some of the no finds involved bullets designed for heavier game reguardless of weight. Poor shot placement was overall a zero factor in the recovered deer and of course the no finds offered no info. I really miss that place, hope to some day soon get back into one.
Thanks for the imput sakomato. Thunbs%20Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 09:16
I was also considering to suggest the 270 Wby., base diameter of 0.531.  I would not be concerned about the rounded shoulders.  Fine shooting flat cartridge that can be down loaded.  But, I have to admit, why not keep the rifle in the original cartridge as discussed above.  Simpe enough and less costly in a fine caliber.  Plenty of people here shoot a 7mm. Rem. magnum without complaints.  These are good ole boys who do a lot of shooting and ot a lot of talking.  They never go home empty handed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 11:55
Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

I was also considering to suggest the 270 Wby., base diameter of 0.531.  I would not be concerned about the rounded shoulders.  Fine shooting flat cartridge that can be down loaded.  But, I have to admit, why not keep the rifle in the original cartridge as discussed above.  Simpe enough and less costly in a fine caliber.  Plenty of people here shoot a 7mm. Rem. magnum without complaints.  These are good ole boys who do a lot of shooting and ot a lot of talking.  They never go home empty handed.
 
 
Yes Sir,
 If I make a change it will likely be to the 270 Wby. but I haven't gone there yet. And I guess I've been in the Army too long cause doing the sinceable thing just won't do. And as mentioned earlier I preferr so many other cals. over the 7mm, but couldn't give a single good reason for why. The circles we travel in can be so different and so close at the same time. You and I actually hunt the same district. One farm is located on the Wilson/Nash line.
Shoot we may have met and don't know it yet. Speaking of I'll be at the Rocky Mount Wilson airport today at 4:30. The 1132nd is comming in finally and I'm there.
Thanks for the imput, got to get ready to go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 14:02
Damn, you will be about 10 minutes from where I work.  I hunt several farms.  Two are in Wilson County and the other is in Hyde County.  I have access to thousands of acres in Johnston County that I have never take the opportunity to hunt.  I used to hunt friends farm in Edgecombe County until he sold it.  It used to produce some nice deer since he never hunted it.  I know the feeling, we all have our certain likes and dislikes and we do not necessarily have to justify them to anyone.  By the way, where do you live?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 14:04
If I could get off that early, I would go out and meet you, but it will not happen until about 630pm.  If you are headed towards Wilson let me know and you can stop by my office and have a slurp of wine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 16:41
Sgt. D, I wouldn't be concerned about ANY issue with a 7 mag.  First of all, I don't shoot 140's in my 7 mags.  I've never seen a need to shoot anything but 150 and 160 grain bullets out of 'em, and in fact my rifles don't shoot 140's very well anyway.  As long as you select an appropriate bullet for the animal you're hunting, a 7 mag will put 'em down like they were struck by the hammer of Thor!  I've killed dozens of critters with both 7 Rem Mag and 7 WSM, and I've never had anything walk further than about 5 steps... never!  Maybe I've been lucky, but I'd like to think it has to do with proper bullet selection and shot placement. 
 
Bullet selection is only surpassed by .30 caliber.  7mm (.284") bullets typically have excellent SD and BC, so they shoot flat, resist wind deflection well, hit hard, and penetrate deeply.  Yet at the same time, recoil is fairly mild for the cartridge's performance level.  You can buy ammo most anywhere.  I mean... what's not to like? 
 
If you know someone who had bad luck with a 7 mag on critters, then either the law of averages caught up with them or they selected a poor bullet choice for the impact velocity and game animal size.  I don't care what cartridge you name; if you ask enough people, you will find someone who had a bad experience of some sort with it, such as a lost game animal.  Believe me when I tell you that this isn't at all a typical phenomenon with 7 mags.  They are far more effective than the .270 ever dreamed of being, I can assure you of that, and they are certainly far more flexible.  7mm bullets have been taking game up to and including elephants in size for over 100 years.  With well constructed 150 and 160 grain bullets driven at 7 mag velocities, the cartridge will very reliably take anything in North America and most of Africa.


Edited by RifleDude - June/10/2008 at 16:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 16:44
Yup, I have killed several elk with mine and they always go right down.  Shot placement and good bullets is the key with any caliber.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2008 at 17:37
Yep, I would not let the negatives on 7mm magnum expressed here be considered the end all for the cartridge. It is kind of like a lot of successful calibers and guns for us shooters. It doesn't sell in the volumes it does because it is a under achiever. In fact it has become a classic American big game cartridge.
I can't speak about it regarding elk but with big deer and large bruins, it is stellar in my book.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2008 at 07:15
7mm Remington mag is a great cartridge no doubt, but around NC a lot of hunters use 270 Winchester for deer hunting.  In fact it is one of the most popular calibers used here.  So I can see why Sgt.D is wanting to put together his custom rifle in that caliber since he from around here.  The next most popular caliber is between the 7mm Remington mag or 30-06.

Edited by Dolphin - June/11/2008 at 07:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2008 at 09:07
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Sgt. D, I wouldn't be concerned about ANY issue with a 7 mag.  First of all, I don't shoot 140's in my 7 mags.  I've never seen a need to shoot anything but 150 and 160 grain bullets out of 'em, and in fact my rifles don't shoot 140's very well anyway.  As long as you select an appropriate bullet for the animal you're hunting, a 7 mag will put 'em down like they were struck by the hammer of Thor!  I've killed dozens of critters with both 7 Rem Mag and 7 WSM, and I've never had anything walk further than about 5 steps... never!  Maybe I've been lucky, but I'd like to think it has to do with proper bullet selection and shot placement. 
 
Bullet selection is only surpassed by .30 caliber.  7mm (.284") bullets typically have excellent SD and BC, so they shoot flat, resist wind deflection well, hit hard, and penetrate deeply.  Yet at the same time, recoil is fairly mild for the cartridge's performance level.  You can buy ammo most anywhere.  I mean... what's not to like? 
 
If you know someone who had bad luck with a 7 mag on critters, then either the law of averages caught up with them or they selected a poor bullet choice for the impact velocity and game animal size.  I don't care what cartridge you name; if you ask enough people, you will find someone who had a bad experience of some sort with it, such as a lost game animal.  Believe me when I tell you that this isn't at all a typical phenomenon with 7 mags.  They are far more effective than the .270 ever dreamed of being, I can assure you of that, and they are certainly far more flexible.  7mm bullets have been taking game up to and including elephants in size for over 100 years.  With well constructed 150 and 160 grain bullets driven at 7 mag velocities, the cartridge will very reliably take anything in North America and most of Africa.
 
 
I give you a resounding Thunbs%20Up On every point made except: They are far more effective than the .270 ever dreamed of being, Not for argument sake, because I am always very interested in someone's opinions when they have a low or unfavorable opinion of the 270. And like you mentioned it really boils down to you will find a % of folks who had some not nice event(s) with it. But honostly it will hold it's own every bit as good as anything in it's class. I think my lack of favor for the 7mm is from that BDL I had that rattled my teeth. But I've had a similar experience with a "light" 308 which I kinda put with the 7mm in my order of favored calibers. Those two being at the bottom.
One thing I didn't mention before concerning that stats from that 9yr. experience was, I was able to access three university programs who were at the time on the cutting edge of the QDMA and developed my own suppliment mix and harvest program, which I continue to use. To give you some idea of how successful it is, the men who hunted there repeatedly told me that I had devil deer there. Because no matter what you shot them with (buck or doe) they were going to run 80+ yds. Except a head shot ofcourse. And these guys can shoot. I mean they don't opt for the heart/lung kill zone, they wait for the specific angle they want and are so well versed on deer anatomy will 98% of the time place the shot into the top 1/3 of the heart and shred the lower lungs. I mean if they just get heart or just lung their upset about it.
And most of us know that a deer that is alert or in fear can do remarkable things after the shot but it is baffeling to me when a deer that appears to be completely calm will go a long distance with no heart. Which by the way was the norm on that place. And I'll share this even at the risk of everyone thinking "ok now I know this guy is full of ______". After applying this suppliment for just over 5yrs. while doing some midnight preditor dispatching I discovered I was shinning my light on a buck that would easily crush the NC non-typical record. I mean just 40yds. standing there looking at me. After rubbing my eyes for the third time he took another couple of bites and turned and walked into the black. The next morning I located his track, which was distinct and attempted to find his preferred haunts without success. But I would see them three other times and all three were just random with no pattern. He's obviously dead of old age but, what a incredible experience. My dream job is to some day manage a large ranch and consistantly provide world record animals. If I can't be a soldier any more, that is likely what I will persue.
 
Thanks for your thoughts, I do keep up with the pros and cons that everyone is offering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2008 at 16:47
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

I give you a resounding Thunbs%20Up On every point made except: They are far more effective than the .270 ever dreamed of being, Not for argument sake, because I am always very interested in someone's opinions when they have a low or unfavorable opinion of the 270.
 
I don't necessarily dislike the .270, I just like .280 and .30-06 better, for the same reason I like the 7mags better -- far better bullet selection.  The 7mag IS far more effective than the .270 simply because it is better for larger game animals, it shoots flatter and hits harder.  Yet, you can load it down with 140's and it's basically just as gentle to shoot as a .270 and still covers the same range of applications on the low end as the .270.  In short, it's more versatile and is a better "1 rifle for all N. American hunting" option.
 
All this to say, I really think you'd be better off keeping your rifle chambered in 7 mag and just install a custom barrel.  You'll spend far less and you'll have a more versatile rifle that you can use to hunt a wider range of game animals in more varied conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meat head Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2008 at 21:27
hi fellersHowdyi havea remminton 700adl an if there is a problem with my bolt head is it easy too tell an how do i no if my bolt head needs changin thanks?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2008 at 21:51
Originally posted by meat head meat head wrote:

hi fellersHowdyi havea remminton 700adl an if there is a problem with my bolt head is it easy too tell an how do i no if my bolt head needs changin thanks?
 
Hey meat head, Good to hear from ya. Don't let this stuff bother you. I was asking about something that is almost never done. There is zero reason that your 700 would have a problem with the bolthead. As long as it is firing when you pull and hitting where you are aiming, keep working that bolt! Just a few more months and us bow hunters will be sitting in the skeeters and waiting for that velvet buck to step in range. Robin%20Hood
 
After that we will be doing that final check for rifle zero. Can't wait!!  Yippee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2008 at 11:40
Interesting article in RifleShooter this month by Craig Boddington.  He polled 100 PHs in Africa and the top caliber chosen for light African plains game was, you guessed it, a 270 Winchester, by a fairly wide margin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/16/2008 at 19:27
Well I've located two potential donor rifles in the correct bolt face. Anybody here looking a Rem 700 donor rifle in a magnum (7mm) bolt face? I would list it on the "for sale" thread but wanted to run it buy you guy's first. This is an ideal platform with everything in very good condition. The barrel has a blemish, destortion, bulge of some sort about 5" from the muzzel. I have listed it on Gunbroker but if anyone here could use it send me a P/M and we'll talk.  Thunbs%20Up
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2008 at 17:19
Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Interesting article in RifleShooter this month by Craig Boddington.  He polled 100 PHs in Africa and the top caliber chosen for light African plains game was, you guessed it, a 270 Winchester, by a fairly wide margin.
 
re read it d the .270 only won by 3 votes over the 30-06, i dont trust this poll at all the .222 and .223 got more votes than the .257wby and the .243 scored higher than the 300win?? i would take my 300 over my .280 all day long, i would probably take my .264 before i took anything else though
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