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tahqua View Drop Down
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Have You Driven A Ford Lately?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 19:25
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

if you bank on head shots for elk you must shoot a lot of cows.

You misunderstood the point.  The point was you don't need to bank on headshots.  I don't know why you think you do.



Let's not deviate too much from the elk hunter from CO's original post.
Headshots are risky business and don't belong in this thread. I will gladly butt heads on this elsewhere, thoughWink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2008 at 22:09
i think i will bow out of this and just take it as we can disagree on this and chalk it up as nothing else, i dont want to turn this place into something its not. so with all due respect to swfa and chris and maybe  more importantly all the ot members i will call a truce here and just agree to disagree on this topic, besides i dont think we have helped the original poster with our arguements so colo im sorry we pulled your thread away from what it was intended. hope we helped with the earlier stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 03:17
Actually, I think it's discussions like this that probably help people the most.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 05:30
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

i think i will bow out of this and just take it as we can disagree on this and chalk it up as nothing else, i dont want to turn this place into something its not. so with all due respect to swfa and chris and maybe  more importantly all the ot members i will call a truce here and just agree to disagree on this topic, besides i dont think we have helped the original poster with our arguements so colo im sorry we pulled your thread away from what it was intended. hope we helped with the earlier stuff.
 
 This poster also went into another such forum and posted the same question with no responses to his question.  This venue is obviously full of opinions and sometimes contrasting opinions.  Nothing wrong with that.  I respect pyro's point of view but don't embrace it.  But heck......I couldn't be married if I couldn't deal with that situation.  This was a good thread.  I think we all learned a little bit.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mercenary1947 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 08:11
 All I want to know is who's horse is that ?  I'm a head shot man ... but you'll NEVER  get head shots all the time ! This statement lost me    " I assume you are saying you always have to refocus?  If so, it leaves me a bit baffled regarding Nikon scopes."  I   NEVER  have to always refocus on my NIKON  . Whacko

Edited by mercenary1947 - August/18/2008 at 08:16
One Shot One Kill .... *S.O.F * Head Shots Only
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 14:19
Originally posted by mercenary1947 mercenary1947 wrote:

 All I want to know is who's horse is that ? 

Technically, my mom's.  Want a good mountain horse?  Absaroka Tennessee Walkers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 17:54
Quick, which movie... "me, I like a mule." ??????

Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 20:49
Not to beat a dead horse, but I had forgotten I took a picture specifically to illustrate the point to people a while ago.  This is the IOR 3-18 FFP with Side Focus, set on 3X:



The near roof is a whopping 11 yards away. The big tree is a mile.  Point, shoot.  Point shoot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote COLOelkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 20:54
Thanks for all the posts everyone.  This is certainly a great board compared to others and I did learn about what I was interested in from both sides.  As such, I'm not totally conviced which way I'll go as I just don't have the experience of looking at elk in a decent scope @ 400 yds.  I have heard from several though that they think that an experienced shooter would not have a problem shooting that distance with a 9X.  The norm for me is to sneak up on something rather than take the long shot so I'm not sure I'd really change what comes naturally to me.  I'll keep watching the board though as there are lots of good posts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 20:57
Originally posted by COLOelkman COLOelkman wrote:

Thanks for all the posts everyone.  This is certainly a great board compared to others and I did learn about what I was interested in from both sides.  As such, I'm not totally conviced which way I'll go as I just don't have the experience of looking at elk in a decent scope @ 400 yds.  I have heard from several though that they think that an experienced shooter would not have a problem shooting that distance with a 9X.  The norm for me is to sneak up on something rather than take the long shot so I'm not sure I'd really change what comes naturally to me.  I'll keep watching the board though as there are lots of good posts!
that sneak up close is my prefered method also, but sometimes with elk hunting you take lemons and make lemonade and that far off shot sometimes is all you will get.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:14
Originally posted by COLOelkman COLOelkman wrote:

I have heard from several though that they think that an experienced shooter would not have a problem shooting that distance with a 9X. 


That is the key right there bother.  Many times people thing they need 16 or 24x for shooting 300 or 400 yards.  It is just pure over kill.

I was at a precision rifle class this spring and the mirage was crazy bad, so I was using 6x at 400 yards.  I shot 3, 5shot group head shots on a man sized target.  Each time my group was 1.5 inches. 

So I totally agree with that statement.  I have a 3-9x on all my hunting rifles and think they are the best way to go. 

If you are shooting Pdogs at extended ranges then I could see the advantages of a high power optic, but for big game hunting I just don't see the need.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougedwards Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:17
[QUOTE=Jon A]   This is the IOR 3-18 FFP with Side Focus, set on 3X:



/QUOTE]
Would that happen to be one of the scopes that you blew up?Whacko
but you brethren are not of the flesh but of the spirit if indeed the spirit of Christ dwells within you...Romans 8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:17
and im sure that most of the guys who shoot a lot of pdogs have big sunshades on there scopes to, cause miraging sucks when you turn the dial up. like i said 3x9's will handle about 90-95% of all hunting situations, alaskan bear and moose and dangerous game in africa would be the except of course
They call me "Boots"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:24
Originally posted by dougedwards dougedwards wrote:

Would that happen to be one of the scopes that you blew up?Whacko

Yup.  Specifically #1 of 3.  Sad.  The best scope that never was.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:30
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Quick, which movie... "me, I like a mule." ??????



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:34
Originally posted by COLOelkman COLOelkman wrote:

I just don't have the experience of looking at elk in a decent scope @ 400 yds.  I have heard from several though that they think that an experienced shooter would not have a problem shooting that distance with a 9X. 

You'll be fine with 9X.  Elk are big targets.  The higher power scopes really earn their keep for me during offseason practice--seeing your target better, seeing your hits, shooting smaller groups, etc, builds confidence.   I also enjoy being able to scrutinize a whitetail's rack in detail one last time before pulling the trigger.  But that's just me.  As I said before, you certainly don't need high power to nail an elk at 400.  The only argument I was making was that if you want the power, you can make it work just fine even with a SF.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 21:57
I agree on that point.
Also, I have seen a group of mule deer bucks at several hundred yards with my 7x42 Zeiss binoculars. When I brought up the 4X scoped rifle I could not pick out the buck I wanted. I have not had that problem with 9X.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/18/2008 at 22:40
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

I agree on that point. Also, I have seen a group of mule deer bucks at several hundred yards with my 7x42 Zeiss binoculars. When I brought up the 4X scoped rifle I could not pick out the buck I wanted. I have not had that problem with 9X.

I agree. A 9x should be more than sufficient at 400 yards. Picking the exact spot you want to place the bullet is always an advantage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2008 at 00:04
I guess I have to be the one here to say that having a little more magnification than 9x can be useful at times mainly to examine the rack on the deer or to determine if it is a doe or a spike. I feel like side focus is faster than front parallax but my grandfather killed a lot of deer with a fixed 8x Weaver with front parallax. One of my favorite scopes is a 4-16x42 Bushnell 4200 and I really like the 4.5-14 x50 Leu VXIII also. I do think you need to get down around 4x but there have been a lot of deer killed with fixed 6x scopes so a lot of what is right depends on how you hunt. For a guy who hunts in brush and shoots under 200 yds an Aimpoint with no magnification is an ideal choice, but if you hunt from a ladder stand or box blind and shots range from 200 to 400 yds that really changes what is right for you. To decide what is right figure that at 400 yds a 4x scope will make the target look like it would at 100 with no scope, or at 400 yds an 8x would make it look like it was 50 yds away, I'm thinking double that 8x and make it a 16x and it will look like it is 25 yds away.  The nice thing about a 4-16 compared to a 3-9 is that you are only loosing  1x on the low end so you can still drop the power to 6x or lower to  brighten it up in low light, but you have that added magnification just in case you want to look at something a little closer. Nothing says that just because you have a 4-16 that you have to use it at 16 x all the time.
As for adjustable parallax you can pre set it at 100 and leave it be without it really creating a major problem. I think the important thing is to have finger adjustable turrets so you can dial in correction for distance. Balistic reticles only work at the highest power which might be fine on a 1.5-6x42 which they dont seem to put a balistic reticle on but they are darn near useless on a 6-20x50 because you just are not very likely to hunt it at the maximum power.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ghost Rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/19/2008 at 05:08
Like I stated earlier: See deer- put down binos/spotter- get deer in scope- decide if worth the trouble of gutting, dragging, cleaning, mounting...I think more deer get away from people fumble f@*king around and not getting ready to put the thing down, then adjusting a focus knob.
 
COLOelkman, if you want to get an idea of what an elk looks like through a 9X scope just look at a horse through one and you'll get the idea.
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