OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Low-Light Performance Calculator
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Low-Light Performance Calculator

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
Message
cyborg View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Gaseous Clay

Joined: August/24/2007
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 07:11
Gentlemen, please note that knowledge and confidence often can lead to egotistic behavior. Those whom you are trying to help will be turned off by this and at that point what you are doing will then be for your own pleasure and bragging rights. By keeping things in a non-confrontational format, all will be more likely to benefit from it.
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
Back to Top
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24225
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 07:57
Bandito  can we all attack supertool's chart now??    ( What a moron he is!!!!..........)  Laugh
Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 08:23
What???  My chart is awesome.  It took me like 10 minutes to come up with that.  Ed, I thought we were friends.  Mooner
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
Ed Connelly View Drop Down
Optics Retard
Optics Retard
Avatar
God of no Chihuahua

Joined: December/16/2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 24225
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 08:30
" Well. if I ss-spent six hundred bucks on a scope, Bub, I'd wanna be able to see in the deep woods-sh at s-sundown and see Ann Sheridan sunbathing by moonlight in her pajamasss!! "                                                                                     
 
                                                                                                    Ann Sheridan
 
               


Edited by Ed Connelly - October/15/2008 at 08:37
Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 09:04
Good luck with that.  
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
Tip69 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
Tip Stick

Joined: September/27/2005
Location: Nebraska
Status: Offline
Points: 4155
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 09:14
Originally posted by Gunshow75 Gunshow75 wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Just as an addendum, I never said that people have to be nice, just polite ...


"...To gunshow75, if you disagree with someone, try to do it in a nice way. ... Out in the real world, politeness is a virtue, you are not dealing with E here after all."

I took those comments to mean that I wasn't being nice, or polite.
 
It isn't THAT you disagree - its HOW you go about it!  Gee wiz, this ain't rocket science, its what we learned in kindergarden!
take em!
Back to Top
Gunshow75 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: December/23/2004
Location: Kentucky, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 209
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gunshow75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:10
Tip, I think you misunderstood my intent in the post. It was my way of explaining why I made my comment about nice and polite. I was not trying to be confrontational. I like and have great respect for Koshkin.

I wish I was more tactful, but since I'll soon be 66, it isn't likely that I will change. I can only reassure the members of the forum that while I might sound like an arrogant you-know-what, I'm really not. It is never my intent to be mean spirited.


Tom



Back to Top
Dogger View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/02/2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8905
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:14
I know that your not arrogant Tom, sometimes things just sound different when interpreted through a keyboard!
God save the Empire!
Back to Top
mike650 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar

Joined: May/14/2006
Location: West of Rockies
Status: Offline
Points: 14569
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:22
Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

I know that your not arrogant Tom, sometimes things just sound different when interpreted through a keyboard!


This can be so true with emails and such.
“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:40
Originally posted by mike650 mike650 wrote:

Originally posted by Dogger Dogger wrote:

I know that your not arrogant Tom, sometimes things just sound different when interpreted through a keyboard!


This can be so true with emails and such.


ARE.................. YOU SAYING............... IF I TYPE........... IN ALL CAPS WITH LOTS OF THIS CRAP....................!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????  IT IS POOR............ONLINE..........EDICATE???????  Man who knew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edited by supertool73 - October/15/2008 at 12:41
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
Dogger View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/02/2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8905
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:45
COME ON SUPERTOOL DON"T BE JERKIN' ME AROUND!!!!!
God save the Empire!
Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:47
SORRY..............SOMETHING...............NEW................I
JUST......................LEARNED
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:52
Gentlemen, I know this thread has gone off topic and I am partially responsible for it, but now that it has been verified (and re-verified)that noone meant any harm and we are all here to learn, let's stick to the topic of low-light scope performance.

So far, the conclusions seem to be the following:

1) Gunshow75 meant no harm and was just trying to help (in all fairness he does know a lot about the subject and has much to contribute)
2) Opticsmike will go back to the drawing board for a little bit and try to write a detailed white paper/application note on what he is doing here.

Once he does that, it will be easier to dispute his methods or to make suggestions on how to improve them.

ILya
Back to Top
cyborg View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Gaseous Clay

Joined: August/24/2007
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 12:58
I'm curious how it will take the affect of coatings into consideration. Glass quality, and optical design also.
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 13:21
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

I'm curious how it will take the affect of coatings into consideration. Glass quality, and optical design also.


I think that is a big key right there.  That is why my extremely simple scale should work. Big%20Grin
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 13:37
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

I'm curious how it will take the affect of coatings into consideration. Glass quality, and optical design also.


There is no easy way to add those, but we have to start somewhere right?

ILya
Back to Top
cyborg View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Gaseous Clay

Joined: August/24/2007
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 13:44
Absolutely your Darklordship. I think that the general idea is a good one. I do however submit that without considering the gains or losses due to quality coatings, glass and design, that the information gathered from such an undertaking can be misleading at best.
It is understood that a low powered 30mm objective, of substantial design and investment in quality will always out perform a scope that is of higher power larger objective and lessor investment. 
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 13:51
You are absolutely correct, cyborg.  For now, opticsmike is concentrating on a very particular case that I would summarize as follows:

"Assuming the same optical quality, how do different configurations of rifle scopes translate into low light performance?"

That is the question opticsmike has tried to answer.  I think there are some flaws in the way he has done things, but I also think that he has put a lot of time and effort into this and it is worth keeping up.  As a minimum, it will have a nice educational effect on the forum.  As I said above, I am more interested in a nice write-up of what he is doing than in plots/graphs/etc on a website.  A write-up gives me an opportunity to really examine the methodology and, perhaps, help opticsmike refine it a little.

ILya
Back to Top
cyborg View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Gaseous Clay

Joined: August/24/2007
Location: North Georgia
Status: Offline
Points: 12288
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 13:59
I understand and agree. I just hope that it will be easier to follow than what I have seen thus far. Bridge design makes more sense to me than this does at present. 
With Freedom comes great responsibility, you cannot have one without the other

An armed public are citizens. A disarmed public are subjects.

OATH KEEPER #8233 Support us, and join our cause.

Cyborg
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/15/2008 at 14:02
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

I understand and agree. I just hope that it will be easier to follow than what I have seen thus far. Bridge design makes more sense to me than this does at present. 


I know nothing about bridge design, but I do know a little about optics.  As a first step, imagine that all of the discussion above uses numbers with only two significant digits to the right of the decimal point....

ILya
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.277 seconds.