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MOA needed for 1000 yards

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tjtjwdad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2009 at 17:03
Dale,
 
In the pits, we could always tell by the 1st shot down range (as long as it didn't ground out before the target) who had enough velocity and who didn't.  The folks with the 168's the sound wasn't the usual "crack" but more like a plop and an oblong (keyhole) hole in the target.
 
By the way, on another post I saw you (I believe it was you) had a Leupold 6.5-20x40, w/SF & varmint,  How dou you like that model of scope, been thinking about getting on myself.
 
Jim
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ring Master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2009 at 21:03
Boy, you opened up a can of worms, didn't you??  1000 yards is asking allot from a 308, but it can be done. If 600 yards is your home range, then that's all you really need to worry about. At 600 yards you should be able to make 4 out of 5 head shots on a single perp target with a good spotter. If your spotter can read the trace there's no reason you should miss the next 4 head shots.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2009 at 21:55
RC,
 I don't disagree a lot with what you had to say other than that I was trying to answer HIS question, not yours.
Fully agree that if he purchased your US Optics scope, he would be MUCH better off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 01:45
Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

If you're in Seattle Washington it will require more elevation than you might have available. If you're in Red Lodge Montana you'll need less.

Holy crap, you must be stalking me! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 09:16
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

  A 25-30 MOA base with a 200yd zero would be better for long range.  


If his scope only has 50MOA of total adjustment, a 25MOA or more would be bad. 


Why set up a 1,000-yard gun that will only see 1,000 yards twice a year at most?  Have you ever shot at 1,000 yards?

I'd say keep the 20MOA base, figure out the 600-yard shot, then use the reticle to adjust for the rest. If your mounting isn't perfect and your internals aren't dead-on; with a 25 or 30MOA base, you will run out of adjustment room on the horizontal axis, which will severely limit your adjustment on the vertical.  Also, scopes in the mid-price range don't do particularly well at the extremes of their adjustment range (at least that has been my experience.)

It isn't what you'll want to hear, but I'd recommend a scope made more for long-range target shooting.  If yours is a Monarch like the one I had, that reticle will cover allot'o target at 1,000 yards.
I just read this whole post.  You need to lay off the rancid and the coolaid, dude.  He was asking about a scope he had in hand not one someone may potentially sell him. 
Yes, in wind conditions, windage adjustment range will be poor, but I hold for wind more than I dial, anyway.  Comes from shooting M1's and M14's at a thousand yards with iron sights.  His mechanical zero will be at about 25-26 minutes on that scope (if it is perfectly in line with advertised range).  However, given all the environmental effects, altitude, etc, for that round at 1000 yds, he would need about 40-43 minutes of elevation.  With a 25 MOA rail, he would have a little left.  A 30 MOA rail would provide some margin.  Cheek weld will be impacted by the increased height above the bore, but a cheekpad or adjustable stock will take care of that. 
It is not my business to ask him why he wants to make a long shot once or twice a year.  That is his business. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 10:50
The USO is gone so no troubles.  HE mentioned USO, I just let him know what his options were.


I agree that the 25MOA or 30MOA might work, but I've seldom seen things work exactly as planned.


My intention was not to "tell him" anything, just to have him think about how much he wanted to put into a 1,000 yard gun when it'l only see 1,000 yards once or twice a year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 12:17
RC, I want to apologize for that "outburst".  My head is kind of screwed up over the loss of a good friend and potential loss of another.  I don't even know what I meant, much less what you meant.  I need to just get offline for a while. 
 I beg your pardon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunterco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 12:23

I want to shoot 2-300yds regularly and 600 yards often but have the capacity to shoot 1000yds. Why? If I go to the 1000yd range and i will, I do not want to be limited by the optic I purchased. I want to be limited by personal ability, not by my gear.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 12:32
I would recommend getting a super sniper 10x it will do all you need and they are not expensive, yet a very good scope.

You scope is just not going to do what you want to do.  Optimally for a 100 to 1000 yard .308 you need a scope with 70 MOA minimum internal adjustment and a 20 MOA base.  That will give you a little extra adjustment at both end of the spectrum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunterco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 12:39
I am sending it back, I noticed the box says 93% light transmission, where Nikon advertises 95% I must have got a bastard batch. I just wanted a nikon like my brothers old tactical, it has 70 MOA and great glass. I guess Nikon isn't what they use to be..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 13:18

Bullet Drop (Inches)

100y

91m

200y

183m

300y

275m

400y

366m

500y

458m

600y

549m

700y

641m

800y

732m

900y

824m

1000y

915m

M118

+16.5

+30.0

+36.0

+34.0

+22.5

Zero

-35.0

-80.0

-144.0

-230.0

M118LR

+17.4

+30.4

+36.3

+34.2

+22.6

Zero

-35.7

-86.8

-156.1

-246.7

F-175gr

+17.2

+29.9

+35.8

+33.9

+22.6

Zero

-34.8

-84.9

-153.7

-243.1

F-168gr

+17.7

+31.0

+37.2

+35.4

+23.5

Zero

-36.7

-90.8

-164.3

-261.7

Energy (Muzzle - M118 - 2605Ft-Lbs., M118LR - 2586, Fed. Match 175gr - 2625, Fed. Match 168gr - 2520)

M118

2265

1940

1678

1400

1195

1035

865

735

635

545

M118LR

2247

1944

1675

1436

1225

1037

877

743

634

547

F-175gr

2285

1975

1705

1460

1245

1060

900

765


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 13:50
Kickboxer, I am sorry for your loss.


I understand your post and, on most points agree.

Hunter, a 10X supersniper is a good scope and won't break the bank.  It has enough windage to get you out to 1,000.

You gotta spend allot more to start getting more scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjtjwdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 17:41

As stated previously, I've been down this road.  I have a 40-X I picked up in trade several years ago that was set up for both a match rifle and a scopped belly gun.  The match sights came with it but I had to get the scope.  I saw a nice Nikon 6.5-20x44 (dot) and I snatched it up.  Unbeknownst to me, it didn’t have enough internal elevation, which has become painfull aparant.  Anyway, my thoughts were the same as yours, shoot mostly 200,300, 500(600) & the occasional 1000 yds.  

 

At the time, my main experience was in Highpower Service Rifle.  Sure, I had shot scoped rifles but since I just borrowed them, basicaly I loaded and shot them.  With the Nikon and the bases that came on the 40-X, it was great out to 700 yards, after that, there was no more adjustments.  I went to the drawing board and tried shims, new bases and so on....  In addition to the 20 MOA base, I also purchased a set of Burris scope rings w/offset inserts because the 20 MOA base was to much (nice for 300 to 1000 but was too high at 100 & 200 yds).   I was able to use the Burris because rings with those offset inserts you can roll them to reduce the full value and adjust the windage travel if needed.

 

I was able to make it work from 100 to 1000 yards but the problem was the scope just wasn’t repeatable at 100/200 because the mecahnical limitations were starting to show their hand.  In fact, I just got back a few minutes ago and set the scope up for 100 to 600 yards and it performed admirably.

 

IMO, Nikons are good scopes, good clarity and repeatability.  But, they have short comings when it comes to internal adjustments and reticle choices.  Long story short, I’m forced to rescope for 1000 yd shooting.

 

Just a FYI, Regarding the velocities of the various loads posted previously, military ammo (M118 & M118LR) is chronographed 78 feet from the muzzle.  Can’t say about the other commercial loads mentioned.

 

HTH

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ring Master Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/09/2009 at 20:55
I normally would not say anything about a member's avatar but I Would to say to Supertool73 - Your avatar is just over the top SICK.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moosetrax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2009 at 21:56
I'm In agreement with using the super snipers for long range. You might never need to shoot 1000 yds, but if the moment arises, then you need to know you can. Even on my hunting rifle, I've gone to a 30mm tube scope. (SS 16x) I hunt in an area where I can sit in my shack and watch most of 150 acres and you just can't cover that distance reliably with a one inch tube. With a 20 minute base on my Rem 700 .308, I have 68 MOA of elevation adjustment with a 100 yd zero. My brother has a Nikon too, but then again he's not covering corn fields in November either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2009 at 23:44

Kickboxer - Hang in there Buddy let us know if we can help.

Supertool that avitar does get a bit old unlike the one Bricat has which I could watch for hours.

Moosetrax - Im sure you will figure this out if you havent but that 16x wont be very bright in low light, I kind of know what you are working with since I have hunted a 20x SS before and subsequently changed to the 10x which I find much more useful overall and a 10x will make a thousand yard deer look like open sights at 100 so that should be doable although I would rather be much closer like under 300 yds.

 



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - February/16/2009 at 23:46

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunterco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2009 at 23:49
I've got it down, I'm lookng for a new optic...boo hoo
 
I must have MOA, this is for an FN SPR A1 308 and I will mostly shoot inside 600yds but you need to "be able" to hit 1000k or reach the potential of the round..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2009 at 13:38
In truth, 1,000 yards is beyond the potential of the round.

Though it can get there, it ain't happy to do so under most circumstances.

My advice is to set the gun up for what is needed and see what it can do at the extremes.  I cwould nots et the gun up for the extreme and see what it can do at 3-600.


The 10X SuperSniper is a good scope and will serve you well.  There are better scopes but they cost MUCH more.  At some point the law of diminishing returns will kick in (I am told, looking through Victory and USO and Premier, I haven't seen taht point yet - but we all define it differently.)

Good luck, and don't spend too much time pouring over spec sheets, anyone can polish a turd, look around at the actual scopes.  And since you cannot look through a SuperSniper, trust us, and send it back if you don't like it - but you will!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moosetrax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2009 at 17:42
To my imaginary friend, or Urimaginaryfrnd, I know what you mean. It gets a little dark around sunset. I like the 16x, but I'd still rather have a 10x side focus. I'd try trading it in, but it has about 3 coats of krylon on it. It's an absolute dream during the day, but the biggest problem is gettin focused at extended ranges close to sunset. The closer it is, the better, even at dusk. Either way, nothing is perfect. I got two in the freezer and the picture in the photo contest. And yes, that's what I was wearing when I killed the deer.
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