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MOA How much internal adjustment .308 Cal

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Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:18
Coffee

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/26/2009 at 10:37

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:19
I agree a 100% supertool....I think its a great thing to admit a persons limitations....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:25
Ying Yang

Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/26/2009 at 10:39

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:25
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

BC for 190SMK .308 is  .533 @ 2100 fps and above it will work just fine at 2600 to 2650fps.
Well my point is if a person has a choice why on earth would they lob a 190gr 308 when they could sling something better???? I am not trying to argue...I am a die hard 308 lover....but still I see your point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:27
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I have access to more powerful rifles but I want a cartridge that I can enjoy shooting.  For that matter I also have access to close air support which is really preferable at distance.

understood....HAHAHA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:27
Originally posted by sniper13 sniper13 wrote:

I am reading alot about 20-30 MOA bases for a .308. This is not usually nesecary for a 30mm tube on a quality scope.


There are a lot more so called tactical scopes with 30mm to 35mm tubes that don't have enough than there are that have enough to work on a flat base.  Some of them definitely need a 20 to 30 MOA base.  Most Leupolds do, IORs do, Schmidt and Benders do, and many others.  SS and Nightforce are exceptions to that, but most put them on those scopes as well. 

The base is for more than just getting more distance, it is to keep your erector assembly more centered in the tube when you start dialing out to longer distances.  If your erector is in the center of the tube, your optics will be better than if it is maxed out at the top end so you can reach 800 or 1000 yards.  Plus it can't be good for the springs holding the erector to be at the extreme end on adjustments either.


Edited by supertool73 - April/28/2009 at 09:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:30
I see ...... and that makes sense thanks for clearing that up...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:34


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - April/28/2009 at 09:48

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:35
Hey super...you think you could give any insight on my ? in the reloading forum on here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 09:36
is that you ??urimag... in the pic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 11:26
Sorry to hear about the scope.

FYI:  I mounted a friends 2.5-10x50 Trijicon yesterday, triangle-on-post reticle, it had no issues like yours.  I don't think the problem is inherent to the design of the reticle, I think you got a lemon.  The only real question now is how many of the 5-20s are lemons.

I will be looking for a scope with similar capabilities and will not be considering Trijicopn this time around.  Sorry to hear of your troubles, glad to know Chris took good care of you, I wish Trijicon had done more.

As for a .308 being a not-good 1,000 yard gun, I gotta disagree.  I wouldn't want to hunt game at 1,000 yards with it, but for punching paper, it is good to go.

I wrote more, regarding "mine-is'bigger" mentality  but deleted it, in the interests of the greater good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 13:35
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Sorry to hear about the scope.

FYI:  I mounted a friends 2.5-10x50 Trijicon yesterday, triangle-on-post reticle, it had no issues like yours.  I don't think the problem is inherent to the design of the reticle, I think you got a lemon.  The only real question now is how many of the 5-20s are lemons.

I will be looking for a scope with similar capabilities and will not be considering Trijicopn this time around.  Sorry to hear of your troubles, glad to know Chris took good care of you, I wish Trijicon had done more.

As for a .308 being a not-good 1,000 yard gun, I gotta disagree.  I wouldn't want to hunt game at 1,000 yards with it, but for punching paper, it is good to go.

I wrote more, regarding "mine-is'bigger" mentality  but deleted it, in the interests of the greater good.
well....a consistant 1000 yard 308 is not an off the shelf gun. These would be comp. rifles and probably $2000-$5000 dollar set-ups. A $1200 338 is a more practical choice for have-to shots at that range. A set-up 308 is hard to beat at a 1000 for paper punching. I didnt say it wouldnt be a good gun, just not the best choice for that range.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 14:20
I'm curious to know how you've come to the conclusion that more projectile mass and velocity translate to more accuracy, please clarify.

If the gun is consistent, the ammo is consistent, and the shooter is consistent, how does caliber make any real change to the equation?  If I can dope a 1,000 yard shot with a .338, would I not also know how to dope a shot for a .308: what am I missing?

If your argument is that the .338 has more power, on that we can agree; however, if your argument is that more power translates to better accuracy, I severely disagree.

Hitting a target 1,000 yards away is not an easy task.  Hitting it consistently is even harder - much harder.  But adding velocity or mass to the projectile doesn't make the task simpler (assuming a few things, admittedly) so you are losing me somewhere.

I have a 300WM that shoots better (MOA-wise) at 600 yards than at 100-yards. It has been explained to me that the bullet has not yet stabilized in flight at 100 yards but is spinning up quite nicely out past 300 yards - pushing a 190-grain SMK at 3,000FPS - while my comperable .308 is very accurate at 100 and very accurate at 600: is that your point?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 17:05
Well...I think mainly we agree...however 800y for a 308 is 3/4 of its max effective range ( depending on gun) 800 is 1/2 of a 338 effective range. So in theory it is easier for the 338 to make more consistant shots. Can you get a 223 bullet to fly like a 308 at 800 absolutely not, a .223 max effective range out of a bolt gun is only approx. 500y give or take. But you can still hit something at 800 yards just not worth a crap and very inconsistantly. Its physics really, however  you really have to take the rifles being used into account. All things being equal, round to round you would be looking at something like this- .223/500,.308/1000,.338/1600. So if I asked you to make a 1000 yard shot cold bore what would you use....probably not the .308 because it is losing ass at 1000y. Do you follow????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 17:14
I will agree with that.  A .338 Lapua at 1000 yards will have 600 more FPS and nearly 1800 lbs more energy.  Obviously wind will effect it less as it has more velocity and a higher BC and more weight.

But I think the point Rancid is trying to make is if you have a shooter that knows his gun and his dope, then shooting either at 1000 yards makes no difference as far as making an accurate hit.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 17:18
At what am I shooting?  And why?

I have a .308 that is dead-nutz at 1,000, it is my "go-to" gun and I'd take it over everything else in the safe.  I know where it sends rounds, and I have great confidence in the gun.

Does the bullet drift more due to wind than my 300WM: yes.
Does it take longer for the 308 to get there than my 300WM: yes.
Do either of those translate to  an inherently less accurate rifle or shot: no.

The real enemy of the 1,000+ yard lines is the bad trigger pull (assuming you know what you are doing and can make a 1,000+ yard shot.)  And, in truth, I'd much rather have a gun that isn't loud as hell and doesn't require a muzzle brake to shoot comfortably.

There are inherent inaccuracies associated with a bullet that goes from supersonic at the muzzle to subsonic in flight: with that, I agree.  My preferred .308 load sends a 175gr. SMK downrange at 2700 FPS and the round is still supersonic at 1,000 yards (at about 2oo feet above sea level.)
ssuming the .308 can get a round down range and have it supersonic at impact, I'd take a .308 over a .338 any day and twice on Sunday.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sniper13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 17:22
Totally agree with both of you...like i stated before I am a die hard .308 man...and yes the 308 it alot more shooter friendly and also my go to rifle, hands down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 17:25
More ain't always better.  Especially if the "more" always makes you flinch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/28/2009 at 17:46
To go off topic even more.  I think a 30-06 would be a great round as well.  Manageable recoil, could shoot a 190 at 2650.  At my elevation it would possibly stay supersonic to 1400 to 1500 yards.  That could be a sweet setup.
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