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Why SWFA Does Not Sell Falcon Menace?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 10:21
Get Your Popcorn Ready
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote danjojoUSMC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 13:25

The Vortex 6.5-20x44/50 is in the Falcon's price range and better in absolutely every way...so you pick that or the mil/mil and FFP features. 

I would trust a Millett before a Falcon...and by all accounts are same/same quality...but Millett's lifetime warranty isn't going anywhere.  Falcon's website has been down for awhile now, 3 months+??  In this day and age that makes no sense and creates more doubt...14 year old's can design and run these websites.
 
Durability and quality of components....even if you are not LEO/MIL you want whatever you buy with your money to work right and be built right.  If a scope goes to sh*t when you are hunting or at the range that you just payed a lot of money to get to and sign up for it's still a tragedy. 
 
If you can't build a tough scope that works the way it is supposed to and offer it at $300/400 - then fix your crap and offer it at a little higher price if you got to!
 
If the Falcon scopes can not track right all the cool features go to waste, its just a sex'd up Simmons.
 
Quality over features until you get to $1,000....then you can be more picky and get it all....only exceptions are the SS scopes and maybe one or two others.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Digit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:04
Yes, from what I have heard Vortex is a superb brand with a great warranty. Unfortunately they are not available in New Zealand due to the Australian distributor owning rights to the brand.  Still - Vortex doesnt have the features of the Falcon untill you get to its new $2000 scope.

In regards to Millett over Falcon... that would be a very foolish mistake. SWFA and Liberty Optics on various forums indicate as much in regards to Millett quality control. My own experience reflects this as well - See here... http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1361032 - Millett should never be compared to Falcon - Falcon has a much better quality control.

I guess every forum has its champions for certain brands and detractors for others. I realise that this is not the best place to be honest about Falcon. Like the original post in this thread I am surprised that Swfa doesnt sell Falcon. Its features, price and quality make it a far better product to represent than other similar priced offerings.

We do seem to be going around in circles with this conversation. If anyone wants to PM me to further this discussion, please feel free.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:14
Originally posted by Digit Digit wrote:


I guess every forum has its champions for certain brands and detractors for others. I realise that this is not the best place to be honest about Falcon.
 
Are you alleging THIS forum "champions" Millet?!?!?
Laugh 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:29
Originally posted by Digit Digit wrote:

Yes, from what I have heard Vortex is a superb brand with a great warranty. Unfortunately they are not available in New Zealand due to the Australian distributor owning rights to the brand.  Still - Vortex doesnt have the features of the Falcon untill you get to its new $2000 scope.

In regards to Millett over Falcon... that would be a very foolish mistake. SWFA and Liberty Optics on various forums indicate as much in regards to Millett quality control. My own experience reflects this as well - See here... http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1361032 - Millett should never be compared to Falcon - Falcon has a much better quality control.

I guess every forum has its champions for certain brands and detractors for others. I realise that this is not the best place to be honest about Falcon. Like the original post in this thread I am surprised that Swfa doesnt sell Falcon. Its features, price and quality make it a far better product to represent than other similar priced offerings.

We do seem to be going around in circles with this conversation. If anyone wants to PM me to further this discussion, please feel free.

That is a very presumptuous statement.

You can be honest about any scope you wish to be honest about.

I have limited experience with Falcon, but the simple fact that it only has a 5 year warranty detracts me from buying it.  I only saw a couple of Falcon scopes briefly and they looked OK, but did not look interesting enough for me to dig deeper.

That is an honest opinion right there.  For me this is a hobby.  I like to play with scopes in my spare time.  Whether Falcon sells a million scopes or none at all makes exactly zero difference to me.

For you this is a money making enterprise.  You make a living by selling optics, including Falcon.  Are you 100% certain that your opinion is unbiased?  Perhaps, you should be careful about bandying about the word "honest" or soon enough it will not be worth nearly as much as you think it will. 

A couple of words on Millett: it seems to be going through difficult times as far as QC goes.  I am guessing being acquired by Bushnell has not been particularly smooth, but I do not have any inside information on the subject.

Since I have very little experience with Falcon scope, I do not have the slightest idea of how they compare with Millett, what their QC is like (or whether they are intended to fall apart in five years or why the warranty is the way it is).

I do have three different Super Sniper scopes that I am very happy with.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/16/2009 at 14:50
Originally posted by Digit Digit wrote:

In regards to Millett over Falcon... that would be a very foolish mistake. SWFA and Liberty Optics on various forums indicate as much in regards to Millett quality control. My own experience reflects this as well - See here... http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1361032 - Millett should never be compared to Falcon - Falcon has a much better quality control.


So if you are going to use Snipers Hide's forum to make your point, maybe you should do a search on Falcon there. What I read was not very favorable towards Falcon.


Edited by Sparky - October/16/2009 at 14:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/22/2009 at 23:56
Just a thought here. It would appear to me by looking at what brands SWFA offers. They all seem to have one thing in common. There are corporate offices located here in the United States. Falcon to the best of my knowledge does not. It was also mentioned about warranty periods. There aren't enough people here in the U.S. that can attest to the durability of that brand. Therefore the warranty comes into serious question. Should there be any problems with this scope SWFA would have to stock several times over just to be able to handle the warranty issue. Something they don't really have to worry about with the brands that they currently carry. These things combined make carrying that brand unlikely at best. Especially considering that most who buy the Falcon scopes are those that don't buy from SWFA due to the export policy. Then when they carry their flagship scope the Super Sniper (which is superior and at the same price point) why bother with the Falcon? It is just an added expense which would have to then be passed on to the end user. So in basic terms if SWFA was to tackle handling the Falcon brand, it would not be what I would consider smart business.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Digit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 00:36
It is refreshing to get such a well structured opinion. In regards to warranty on Falcons, time will tell if they are a solid scope. My impressions are that they are solidly built. My own experience would indicate the return rate is better than similar priced products here. Falcon is a proactive company in regards to development. Look forward to new scopes such as a 2-12 with M3 style turrets or a 4.5-18x50 FFP MOA/MOA.
The Super Sniper I think looks to be an incredible scope for the money. It is a pity they are not exported outside of the USA. They would sell a bundle. They do pop up for sale here occasionally though and are soon swallowed up in the second hand market. I guess if SWFA were to wholesale the SS then the retail price would place it at a different price point. Maybe SWFA could entertain wholesale pricing for foreign distributors who would buy in bulk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 01:00
If Falcon is proactively looking into expanding their market share, then it would be wise for them to look at building a corporate office here in the U.S. They would enjoy a larger purchasing audience that way. There are many companies which do not import the products they sell. These companies would then be more accepting of the idea of carrying that brand. I have great appreciation for competition when it comes to brands, and suppliers. This is one of the reasons why the SS is such a fantastic scope, it was designed originally to fulfill a government contract, and has only been improved by the owners.
Hopefully Falcon is leaning towards a facility domestically. Hopefully they are looking at market trends as far as the warranty periods as well. It would be wise to consider the number of comanies that offer the lifetime warranty. Also, if what I have read is true, then it would seem that Falcon has dropped the ten year warranty that they had in place 2 years ago. These types of things can cause a lack of consumer confidence, which may or may not be deserved. I hope they are serious, and take these things into consideration. We all appreciate, and benefit when we have quality options.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 01:13
Originally posted by Digit Digit wrote:

In the Falcons price range, you are not looking for hardware to take to war. I wouldnt even feel comfortable with an SS or an ATK product where my life was relying on my equipment.
In this price range you are looking for something that allows you to compete or hunt with the benefits of tactical design - ie a large customer base who isnt actually posted in Afghanistan. My customers enjoy the repeatability, FFP, Mil/Mil and good glass that Falcon enables without the need to spend Premier money so that they can reliably nail a Chamois at 500 metres with their .270. Real world stuff for the common person.
BS FlagIf it wont do in a gunfight it's not TACTICAL even if it looks tacticool so it's  simply not suitable.       I'm quite comfortable with the extreme reliablility of my Super Sniper and I have no problem carrying it in harms way.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Digit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 01:37
By modern day definition a tactical scope would be considered one that is FFP mil/mil moa/moa exposed turrets etc etc... We can thank war for many technological design advances.
Modern hunters are also looking to expolit these modern features. The american market has a lot to answer for in reards to the good old 30/30 reticle 1/4" clicks - bless them - they really new what was good for the rest of the world (sarcasm). Just because a customer isnt heading in to war, it shouldnt preclude them from features that obviously make for a better scope.
Personaly - if my son/daughter was going to war I would mortgage the house and buy him a US Optics or similar - nothing less.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 02:02
Not entirely true. The 30/30 reticle is a good one for the application. 1/4 inch clicks are great for the application. We are talking about a hunting scope here. Now in so far as the tactical scopes. These are two entirely different applications. We didn't decide what was best for the rest of the world. Only what was best for the majority of marketability which was for hunting purposes here domestically. There are many, and have been many different reticles available in several different scope configurations for the outdoorsman, that they were geared towards. Technology is always moving forward, so naturally just as with computers many things fall behind, but are still quite serviceable.
Tactical scopes is where the real advances are coming to the front. mainly in that reticles and glass quality are so much better. Due mostly to the available manufacturing techniques. Some of this has benefited the recreational scopes as well.
Still, a hunting scope isn't going to need the doodads and dinglehoffers that a tactical scope is seeming to need these days. In fact they get in the way. Truth be known, a tactical scope really only needs to be dependable with some sort of reticle for ranging, and quick holdover at known distances. Decent glass, and coatings that will stand the wear and tear of normal, (which in tactical means unusual and sometimes abusive) use. Everything else is just bells and whistles. just like a car, these cost more, and at times may serve a purpose. But ultimately aren't actually needed. So the sarcasm isn't really well founded. it is just more of the anti-American nonsense that somehow you are better, or classier, or whatever. I really couldn't care less. I am just tickled crapless that I am a redneck fortunate enough to live here in the U.S. and have absolutely no sense of needing or wanting to need to feel superior to anyone. I am what I am, a southern redneck American veteran. i need not prove a thing to anyone else. i have proven it to the one person that I have to live with, and that is myself. I am content.


Edited by cyborg - October/23/2009 at 02:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 02:14
Oh yeah... Save the sarcasm for those that aren't up to snuff. We here are willing to fight to keep our firearms, all of them. Not just the ones that the government is willing to allow us to keep. I suppose that makes us somehow barbaric in the eyes of most other more uh cultured societies. Marching
 
By the way, in case you didn't notice. YES that sarcasm of yours was offensive to any true American. It is the markets that imported our scopes, so take it up with them. The absolute nerve of some people. Furious


Edited by cyborg - October/23/2009 at 02:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 02:16

I have no problem with people choosing to use target knobs to dial in correction to compensate for trajectory when hunting or target shooting but even to hunters who have invested significant financial resources to be able to hunt - reliablility matters.  You need to understand that just because a scope has certain features found on true tactical scopes does not make it a tactical scope. It may look tacticool but if it isn't suitable for a gunfight you are doing the buyer a dis-service representing it as tactical because even some police and military personnel might be misled into thinking it was adequate when it is not.  You are simply out of your league on this issue .


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Digit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 02:39
This is an interesting conversation and I appreciate your points of view. In our country 99.99999% of all scopes sold are to recreational shooters. This I would imagine is significantly different to the USA where based on the forums here you have a very high percentage of buyers heading out to fight a war. From my perspective we as consumers enjoy the advances that modern tactical technology brings to the recreational shooter. We are seeing these advances in the simple 1" vs 30mm tube or the metric  turret/reticle (slowly the logic of metrics is encroaching on USA society Excellent ).  We are starting to see a realisation that that these features can be put to good everyday recreational use. Falcon in the UK are the first company to implement that reliably in an affordable product - hey - this a good logical commercial step forward for mankind - or those that shoot a gun anyway.

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keep on pissin boys...I love this banter...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Digit Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 03:15
Originally posted by cyborg cyborg wrote:

Oh yeah... Save the sarcasm for those that aren't up to snuff. We here are willing to fight to keep our firearms, all of them. Not just the ones that the government is willing to allow us to keep. I suppose that makes us somehow barbaric in the eyes of most other more uh cultured societies. Marching
 
By the way, in case you didn't notice. YES that sarcasm of yours was offensive to any true American. It is the markets that imported our scopes, so take it up with them. The absolute nerve of some people. Furious


Cyborg - no need to post edit your posts - you are selling yourself short - you have made the most intelligent response to date in this thread - keep up the banter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 04:23
Originally posted by Digit Digit wrote:

...(slowly the logic of metrics is encroaching on USA society Excellent ).  ...
 
Yea but sometimes it looses that colorful ring....  
 
I'd walk a mile to smoke a camel.    Soldier
 
I'd walk a kilometer to smoke a camel. Light It Up    It just doesnt have that same ring to it it sounds too .... British.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steelbenz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2009 at 05:03
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Originally posted by Digit Digit wrote:

...(slowly the logic of metrics is encroaching on USA society Excellent ).  ...
 
Yea but sometimes it looses that colorful ring....  
 
I'd walk a mile to smoke a camel.    Soldier
 
I'd walk a kilometer to smoke a camel. Light It Up    It just doesnt have that same ring to it it sounds too .... British.


OH no-no monsieur, 1609 meters for camel.    Roll on Floor Laughing
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77gr / 80gr 1:7
 
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