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X-Bolt vs Sako 85-my take
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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Posts: 6108 		  Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: X-Bolt vs Sako 85-my take
    Posted: October/28/2009 at 17:02
Originally posted by Horsemany

Ted
 
I agree with your post except for the bolt lift.  The lift on my X-Bolt, A-Bolt, and Cooper all have 3 lug bolts with approximately half the force required.  My long gone Weatherby Mk V had lighter lift too.  On my Sako 85 you have to almost slap the bolt handle up.  Other 85's I've handled were about the same.
 
The cocking effort will vary depending on the weight of the firing pin spring and the length and shape of the bolt handle.  However, in general, 3 lug bolts of any type still require more cocking force than 2 lug bolts because the cocking cam is steeper.  I have a Browning BBR (the 9-lug action made pre-A Bolt), 2 Coopers, 1 Sauer 200, 2 Sako 75s, and 1 Sako 85, all of which have the same bolt throw angle.  Cocking force required is sligthly less on the Coopers.  The Sauer has a slightly stiffer bolt lift than the Sakos.  There's really no difference between the rest.
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Posts: 6108 		  Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 17:05
Originally posted by JF4545

I know nothing of the Sako 85, but the new Sako 85 Finnlight's Bolt lifts easily and is very smooth...
 
The only difference between the standard 85 and the 85 Finnlight is the stock and the barrel contour.  The action is exactly the same.  I don't have any complaints about the 85 bolt lift personally.  I can't tell much difference between it any most other short lift bolt actions.
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Horsemany View Drop Down
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Posts: 599 		  Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 17:40
Could be the Finnlight is smoother being stainless.  I agree with you Ted.  3 lugs in general have more bolt lift resistance than 90deg 2 lug guns.  It's not that the Sako is terrible.  It's just that the X-bolt's lift is silky smooth compared to the 85 as noted in my review.

Edited by Horsemany - October/28/2009 at 17:50
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JF4545 View Drop Down
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Posts: 627 		  Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 17:40
Interesting Ted, My Sako 85 Finnlight's action is just as smooth if not more smooth and less stiff than my Kimber 8400 action...Same goes with the Mod. 70 Featherweight  I had, my sons mod. 70 as well,  I have no stiffness in any of them.
 I figured the Finnlight must be different because of this. Im going to go look around online to see what kinds of stocks are made for it. If you have any ideas please let me know.
 
JF
 
 
 
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timber View Drop Down
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Posts: 351 		  Quote timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/28/2009 at 23:24
I'm wondering if the bolt diameter at the cocking location has anything to do with the stiffness?  I don't own a Browning A-Bolt at the moment but I believe it's bolt is bigger.  My last A-Bolt had a much lighter lift.  It is also true that the handle is pretty long on an A-Bolt. 

The 9-lug Mark V's I've handled and shot all seemed easier to cock.  Although they have short bolt handles they do have extra large bolts.  Not sure about an X-Bolt although what I recall from a brief handling was a smaller bolt than an A-Bolt which blows away my idea.

I can't see how the difference in an all stainless and carbon steel action would make any difference.  First the Sako 85 Hunter bolt is stainless even though the chamber is carbon steel.  But what would any of that matter if everything is clean and properly lubricated?  Sako recommends just wiping the lugs with a lightly oiled cloth, no more.  I've tried heavier lubrication to no avail - ended up cleaning off all the excess.

As to the dovetail I'm pretty happy with the Talley's although I wish they could make a shorter height QD ring.  Everybody knows this issue.  The tang inletting is a big disappoint though.  It goes agaisnst everything I've thought about a quality wood stocked rifle.  There is no excuse for it IMO.
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Posts: 12770 		  Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 18:06
I liked the FN Safari High Powers.  I just can't like the A-Bolt--X-bolt guns....they just don't do anything for me.......sorry.....they may be good shooters......but there's just no SEX APPEAL.................Bucky   
 
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Horsemany View Drop Down
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Posts: 599 		  Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2009 at 18:44
Aww c'mon Ed.....that Medallion makes the Sako look pretty plain next to it in the cabinet.
A little bling might make you happy.Wink
 
I think the surface hardness of stainless vs chrome moly could cause a slight difference in friction of any moving parts.   My Sendero SFII is WAAAY slicker than my other CM 700's. 
 
Since starting this thread I've taken my Sako bolt apart again for inspection.  They are totally unique as far as how the cocking piece/bolt shroud are retained.  No threads like most other guns.  There are a number of things that contribute to the increased bolt lift from what I can see.  For one the camming surface on the bolt is steeper than my other 3 lug guns.  For another the way the bolt shroud is retained there's a lot of friction with the bolt body/bolt shroud interface.  A little lube helped some and as I said before it's not terrible just noticeably stiffer than other 60deg guns I own.
 
I should also add the 85 has a shorter bolt handle than the model 75 which may be why less bolt lift is percieved by m75 owners.
 


Edited by Horsemany - November/01/2009 at 18:46
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timber View Drop Down
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Posts: 351 		  Quote timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 15:13
I've taken my bolt apart several times and agree with you Horsemany.  It is steep.  Cleaning and lubricating it helped but not much.  And the bolt handle is shorter than an A-Bolt (not sure about the X-Bolt).  I can't remember how the length compares to the 75 I owned.  Increasing the length of the 85 bolt might give that little bit extra leverage to take away the stiff feel.  But would anybody put a tactical bolt handle on a Sako?

Thinking about your comments of different metals reminded me of my stainless 700 Mountain Gun.  Before I had a long handle put on my 308 (see below) it did have the smoothest action of my three 700's.  But I'd have to give that edge to the 308 now as the long handle makes it super easy to cock.  The disadvantage is it also makes it easier to catch on something in the woods and take the gun out of battery.  So far that hasn't been a problem and it wouldn't be a problem on those bolt actions with locks like Sako's.

Bottom line for me: Sako's are really nice quality rifles but they're not perfect.  What is?
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Horsemany View Drop Down
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Posts: 599 		  Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 18:18
I have to agree about "nothing's perfect".  They all have trade-offs. 
 
 
I just got my gloss VX3 from SWFA 2 weeks ago and it doesn't have the rubber eye piece like yours.  I thought it was cause mine was gloss that it didn't have rubber but yours has it.  Any thoughts?  Mine's a 3.5-10x40duplex gloss and it's definately the new VX3 model.
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JF4545 View Drop Down
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Posts: 627 		  Quote JF4545 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 18:58
I bought a VX-3 4x5x14x40 CDS 30mm and it came with a rubber eye piece as well. But it realy did not matter because I bought the fron and rear flip-up scope covers from Leo. They are kinda spendy but they sure are nice covers..They are not cheap like the 9.00 plastic ones I have for other scopes. Just a Thought Horsemany.......
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Horsemany View Drop Down
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Posts: 599 		  Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 19:06
Those Leupold flip-ups are on my wish list.  Good to hear you like them.   I can't imagine why some VX3's would have the rubber and some not.
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Horsemany View Drop Down
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Posts: 599 		  Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2009 at 10:46
Just got off the phone with Leupold.  My rubber piece was never put on.  It's in the mail.
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