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Sako 85 Finnlight 270 blew up |
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Horsemany
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 643 |
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I tend to agree. The rifle should be designed to handle a ruptured case better than that. It's interesting the barrel looks unharmed. I saw a Ruger with a case head seperation at my local club 3 years ago and it basically amounted to soot around the receiver vent hole and a little on the stock. The rifle was fine and shot the rest of the day.
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lucytuma
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: November/25/2007 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 5389 |
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Thanks for posting this information, it's a great reminder to us reloaders of what can possibly happen. Your misfortune may save one of us reloaders in the future, I'm glad your ok. The rifle can be replaced, your eyes, fingers and life cannot, no matter what the outcome is with Sako, I think you already are very fortunate to not have been terribly hurt.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Not true. I've seen rifles with the entire bottom metal blown out due solely to case head separation. I've heard reports of extractors blown completely out of actions due to case head separation. This is the reason some action designs such as the Remington 700 have completely enclosed, counterbored bolt heads that extends into the chamber end of the barrel. The Sako doesn't have an enclosed bolt face, so in the event of a case head separation, the rapidly expanding gas is vectored out the bottom left side of the bolt face. Even though the round may have been within normally safe pressure limits, we're still talking about more than 50,000 psi here! The gas has to go somewhere, so it travels the path of least resistance, which on the Sako is down through the magazine and along the left side (from the shooter's perspective) bolt race. This would explain why it blew the bolt shroud off, because the shroud is blocking the open end of the bolt race. The amount of damage caused depends on the action design and the amount of peak pressure involved, so no two circumstances will necessarily have the same end results. The fact that the barrel wasn't damaged supports the idea that it was caused by case head separation. Seeing the brass will tell the story. Usually the brass forward of the web ahead of the rim will still be in the chamber if it was caused by head separation.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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ccoker
Optics Master Joined: February/13/2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 2041 |
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As I stated earlier, I am very happy to have fingers and eyes intact
i had a nice bonus hit the bank on Friday so it allowed me, well, the wife allowed me :) to get another bolt action in time for deer opening weekend in a few weeks.. (the 700 LTR I posted about) the bolt is stuck in the gun, I tried to tap on it for a bit with a hammer, no go interesting that Ted posts about the excess gas going low left, my left hand was around the mag well and was numb for several days at this point, I am going to wait to hear from my contact who may be able to help before sending it in... I will be pleasantly surprised if they replace it... if not, so be it I am lucky to be able to type this .... |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Notice also that the bolt stop release button was blown off the receiver... which is along the left side of the receiver, extending into the left bolt race. It and the bolt shroud were blocking the path of the escaping gas pressure as it traveled along the left bolt race. You truly are very lucky to be unharmed by this incident, Mr. Coker! I'm very glad to hear this!
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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You had an angel on your shoulder on that one. WOW. Very glad you are able to write about this...
Be careful.
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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No doubt! I don't see how in the world the bolt shroud missed your face! |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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I shuddered when I saw the bolt shroud, too.
What is all the yellow discoloration on the stock (left side of receiver, and in the mag well?) Atomized brass?
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Horsemany
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 643 |
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Ted if you're right that makes me think less of Sako's in general. To send the bolt shroud/firing pin assembly straight back at the shooter is less than desireable. I have only seen one other case head separation so I'm no expert. The one I saw was almost a non event and shooting resumed a few minutes later.
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RONK
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: April/05/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3199 |
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Well, I can't think of any bolt rifles that would throw the bolt shroud/firing pin assembly anywhere other than back at the shooter, given enough pressure.
I think Sako should get some credit for apparently venting the gas as it did, to bleed off much of the pressure into the mag well before it ALL accumulated within the bolt proper before perhaps REALLY coming unglued under tighter confinement.
(But I don't really know anything about Sakos; just speculating based on what Ted and others are saying...)
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Horsemany
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 643 |
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What I saw must've been an anomaly. It just blew soot out of the vent hole in the receiver. The old case was taken out (in two pieces) and after a few people inspected it they shot it. I'm sure there are varying degrees of kaboom based on pressure and design. What I witnessed must be the best case scenario. The one I saw was a Ruger MKII in 270. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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This Sako exhibited what can happen with any controlled round feed type action in the event of case rupture. With half of the fence surrounding the bolt face milled away to allow the case rim to slide under the extractor, essential for CRF, it provides a directional path for gas to flow back into the action. The same can happen with ALL CRF actions -- Mausers, M70's, Rugers, etc. The only style of action that is essentially immune to this is a completely enclosed bolt face, with the barrel shank counterbored to allow the bolt nose to fit inside it, such as on the Remington 700. An enclosed bolt face contains the gas flow and doesn't allow it any pathway to shoot back into the action. So, in dealing with gas, you can either direct it or contain it.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Correct. Bolt actions in general essentially consist of a tube inside another tube with the end of both tubes facing the shooter's head. There's no other way around it. One of the worst designs in dealing with gas pressure in the event of case rupture is the Pre-64 M70. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Horsemany
Optics Journeyman Joined: February/28/2008 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 643 |
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That's correct on the pre 64. Had they left the flange on the bolt shroud like the Mauser 98 I believe they could be declared.....perfect.
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Monster
Optics Master Joined: December/16/2008 Location: So. Cal Status: Offline Points: 2031 |
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The reason I was thinking not normal case speration because I know of someone who has had case speration in an encore and I would think that a sako bolt action would be a lot stronger than an encore
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"Get Busy Livin' or get busy dyin'" -Red (Shawshank Redemption)
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ccoker
Optics Master Joined: February/13/2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 2041 |
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after more discussion with others I think I may have had case head seperation with the Federal brass due to excessive pressures
I may have simply gone over that edge I was not trying to get the last few FPS, it was that according to Barnes and others they tend to group best when driven hard... perhaps a lesson for those that reload and get obsessed with speed |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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Is there any possible chance that you grabbed a 308 round, which will fit in a 270 chamber. Seen a similar instance of this. What powder are you using? |
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ccoker
Optics Master Joined: February/13/2008 Location: Austin, TX Status: Offline Points: 2041 |
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I haven't got the bolt open, I guess anything's possible, though I was using one of those 20rd clear plastic cases and each round had me mark it with a sharpie with the powder charge... so, I would have had to be a real idiot.. and, that's completely possible
there was a hole in the target at 100 yards, albeit about a ft high (indicating high pressure) |
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Dale Clifford
Optics Jedi Knight Joined: July/04/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5087 |
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in one instance the 308 bullet was swaged down,shot hit the target, and acted like a normal round, the other instance, gave your results. are you using a med. ball powder?? Do you load for any handguns.?? or shotguns.
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Shenko
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/20/2008 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 249 |
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Did you mic and weigh the bullets you pulled, and the other bullets from that box?
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