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magshooter1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 219 		  Quote magshooter1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Caliber
    Posted: November/02/2009 at 11:09
Originally posted by martin3175

I like the 35 Whelen ..that'll get it done for you ...
If not - I would look at a 30-06 as the MINIMUM and  up from  there with the 30 cal magnums and so forth , topping out at 338 Win Mag ... The 45/70 ( I have 2 ) is a good 200 yd or less choice and can be had in a compact Marlin lever action
 
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scavaleru View Drop Down
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Posts: 18 		  Quote scavaleru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 13:16
     I looked on the numbers of a lot a ammo.In my opinion the .300 WSM is the best,the second is .300 WM and the third 30-06/7mm Rem.Mag.
     The problem is how much power I need to shut a deer/bear/moose?The ballistic trajectory is superior for magnum. The question is how much power I need on 300 yd to be ok with the power of the bullet?The first two cost pretty much.May I can find something to cost a little bit lower and still to have good performances(ft/s,bullet drop).
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supertool73 View Drop Down
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Posts: 3725 		  Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 13:36
With proper shot placement any of those rounds would kill any of your listed game at 300 yards.  The advantage to the 06 or 7mm is reduced recoil over the other two.  If a guy is recoil sensitive them having the bigger .30 cal mags will make him worse off. 

I have a cousin that worked as a guide on a big hunting ranch.  He said the most successful hunters he guided where the guys that shot 7mm, .308 or 30-06.  He said typically the guys that brought in the big super duper magnums where scared enough of their guns that they make bad shots.  Where the guys with the more manageable recoil guns make good precise hits and killed the game more efficiently.   He guided a lot of people who killed big elk and buffalo with .308 and 7mms. 

As hunters I think many times we are to fixated on the numbers on the ballistics charts when we just need to pick one and get out and learn how to shoot it.  Pick one that you can afford to shoot a lot and get some good trigger time behind it and get to know your gun and load well.  Then when hunting time comes around making that good shot will not be a problem. 
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trigger29 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1955 		  Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 14:04
Originally posted by scavaleru

     I looked on the numbers of a lot a ammo.In my opinion the .300 WSM is the best,the second is .300 WM and the third 30-06/7mm Rem.Mag.
     The first two cost pretty much.May I can find something to cost a little bit lower and still to have good performances(ft/s,bullet drop).
 
Originally posted by supertool73

With proper shot placement any of those rounds would kill any of your listed game at 300 yards.  The advantage to the 06 or 7mm is reduced recoil over the other two.  If a guy is recoil sensitive them having the bigger .30 cal mags will make him worse off. 

I have a cousin that worked as a guide on a big hunting ranch.  He said the most successful hunters he guided where the guys that shot 7mm, .308 or 30-06.  He said typically the guys that brought in the big super duper magnums where scared enough of their guns that they make bad shots.  As hunters I think many times we are to fixated on the numbers on the ballistics charts when we just need to pick one and get out and learn how to shoot it.  Pick one that you can afford to shoot a lot and get some good trigger time behind it and get to know your gun and load well.  Then when hunting time comes around making that good shot will not be a problem. 
I think supertool offers great advice here. If ammo cost is a concern, and ranges are not more than 300 yds, a 30-06, or .308 may be the way to go. Both will put game down with a good shooter. It just takes ammo to hone the skills. If the magnum ammo cost will keep you from practicing as much as you should, shoot something cheaper, and just shoot it better.

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Preston View Drop Down
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Posts: 99 		  Quote Preston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 14:58
I'd say the .300 win mag would be the one to go with if you are comfortable shooting it and can deal with the recoil especially if you are talking about large game like Moose and bear. The .300 win mag would def. be able to knock them down thats for sure... I say take a look at a Ruger M77 or Remington 700 or a Tikka T3
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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Posts: 6108 		  Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 16:37
Originally posted by scavaleru

       The problem is how much power I need to shut a deer/bear/moose?The ballistic trajectory is superior for magnum. The question is how much power I need on 300 yd to be ok with the power of the bullet?The first two cost pretty much.May I can find something to cost a little bit lower and still to have good performances(ft/s,bullet drop).
 
At that distance, and the normal shot distances you will encounter, ballistics comparisons between the cartridges mentioned is basically a useless exercise.  As supertool said, ignore the ballistics numbers.  In all but the most extreme circumstances, they only serve as fodder for arguments and mean very little in terms of real world effect on game animals.  People tend to get too worked up over energy and bullet drop numbers and think they need a super magnum to kill the average herbivore, when lesser cartridges than these have been doing the job ever since the invention of smokeless powder.  Speed and power sells, but isn't needed with the quality of today's bullets, until the shot distance gets further than the average person and rifle has any business shooting.
 
ANY of the cartridges mentioned will kill any of the animals mentioned stone dead.  I go back to my original recommendation.  Considering everything -- ammo availability, rifle chambering availability, recoil levels, bullet selection, versatility, and cost -- I would go with either the .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, or .300 Win Mag.  For an all-around cartridge suitable for deer, elk, and moose, you won't find a better choice than one of those 3.  They aren't the best choices for very large, dangerous game, but short of that, they will anchor anything that walks.  If I had to narrow my choice to just one of those and if you aren't recoil sensitive, I would go with the .300 Win Mag by a narrow margin.  Otherwise, the .30-06 and 7mm mag are about the same in terms of recoil and effectiveness on game.  If you had included brown and polar bears on your list, I would recommend the .338 Win Mag instead. 
Ted

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Posts: 4519 		  Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 17:09
Opinion, untempered by fact, is ignorance.
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Trays 7940 View Drop Down
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Posts: 744 		  Quote Trays 7940 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 17:42
30.06 !  Bandito
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Kickboxer View Drop Down
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Posts: 4519 		  Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 17:54
OK, once again... 30-06 has a wide variety of available loadings, will take any game on North America, does not have heavy recoil, especially compared to the .300WM.  IF you really intend to hunt bear with it, I suggest you load up with .210gr Berger VLD, shoot a lot with it, and use it on everything you intend to hunt.  It will PLANT deer, elk, moose and bear fear it.  Great ballistics (which DO matter) and maintains a very good downrange energy level.  The .210gr will do it all. 
Me, I lke a Lott...
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Roy Finn View Drop Down
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Posts: 2726 		  Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 18:28
Originally posted by scavaleru

       The first choice will be deer,moose is the second and bear(black) the third.The ammo for hunting has to be very precise(best in the market).But for training could be ordinary.        Bears scare me,too.        The area will be in Ontario-Canada.So,will be a lot of forest.I thing max.300 yd.        I never was to hunting.But I am good to shot the targets.


Given the info you have stated so far, I would go 30/06 for certain. No denying the performance of the magnums mentioned, but I would never recommend a magnum as a first rifle. You also stated that you wanted "ordinary" ammo for training/practice and the good ol 30/06 will give you that much, much better than any of the magnums. Shooting lots of practice rounds behind a magnum is not to much fun.
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Kickboxer View Drop Down
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Posts: 4519 		  Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 18:39
Excellent points, Roy. 
the -06 one can go from 110gr all the way up and with "reduced recoil" loads in the middle and never have to hand load.  You can even find the surplus stuff every now and then and practice, practice, practice at low cost...
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pyro6999 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13051 		  Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 20:08
i had a .300wsm, i still have a .300win mag, there is a reason for that. imo the .270wsm is really the only one that was worth producing (sorry ted) the rest of the series imo was a waste.  the the 7mags 300mag and .338 mags are all well established and these new wsm rounds only have one thing going for them (no belt) other than that they dont really improve on anything. the .270wsm on the other hand is better than the .270win, by a notable margin, approaching 270wby performance in a standard length action with no belt.  if you wanna chase bear with a 300wsm be my guest, but i promise you that you will get better performance from the .300win mag especially when the bullet weights go over the 180gr category. if this is your first rifle, you are certainly asking for the development of a seriously bad flinch, which is a terrible thing to start a shooting career with. bad shooting habits turn into more bad shooting habits. for your sake as well as the animals you will hunt you owe it to them and yourself to make it right. i would stay away from any magnum, other than the .257wby. even my .264win mag would probably make a poor choice for a first rifle. i started hunting big game with the .257 roberts, what a pussy cat. no flinch though. i then moved up to a 30-06, and for elk i didnt feel underpowered. i would probably go after bear with a 30-06 and feel pretty confident. the magnums only kill stuff "extra" dead, thats all they do for you. burn more powder, wear out a barrel faster etc. 
now i know why i bought a .375H&H!!
.270win sucks
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