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2.5-10 NightForce vs Schmidt&bender vs Zeiss

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eoperator View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eoperator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2.5-10 NightForce vs Schmidt&bender vs Zeiss
    Posted: June/13/2010 at 21:10
Looking for scope to put on my new Nosler 48 300WSM. I have narrowed my selection down to,
  Nightforce 2.5-10x32 {cheapest, american made but smallest Obj.}
  Schmidt&Bender Summit 2.5-10x40 {Great reputation but only 1" tube}
  Zeiss 2.5-10x42  Victory {30mm tube, biggest Obj. but highest price}
Witch would be the toughest,  low light, all around hunting optic of the 3  ?
Any opinions/feedback would be helpful. Thanks 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugsNbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2010 at 06:31
I'd take the S&B. Having a 1" tube is not a negative any any way. It will be all you would ever need. That said, any of the three you mentioned are GREAT!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2010 at 10:04
Glass in the S&B and Zeiss will be better than the Nightforce )though Nightforce will be more than adequate.)  Zeiss will have the best glass of the 3.

My guess is that the Zeiss would be the brightest and clearest.

I have done nothing with the S&B hunters, only their tactical scopes.  I have used Zeiss and Nightforce.

For 300, I'd buy the Zeiss.  (Though the 1" tube should be fine, I would want the 30mm Zeiss.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2010 at 10:49
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Zeiss will have the best glass of the 3.

My guess is that the Zeiss would be the brightest and clearest.
 
Sure about that?  Although a case can certainly be made for Zeiss being the best, my experience from owning and using scopes from both is that they are basically equivalent.  I have a S&B 1.5-6X42 Zenith that to my eyes has better resolution and contrast than my Zeiss Diavari 2.5-10X50 when set on the same magnfication, yet the Zeiss has superior FOV and less tunnel effect at low magnification.  I personally can't even tell a difference in low light performance (again when set on the same power).  When you get into optics of that class, they are so close that there is no clear-cut "better" in all situations and across different model comparisons. 
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snakeman48 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2010 at 11:02
Tag for later read.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2010 at 11:29
In truth, I haven't hunted an S&B hunter (as said above) so I'll defer to you on that one.

S&B makes good stuff, no question; but I have always preferred Zeiss' best glass to anyone else's.  Does the S&B have a water-shedding coating?

Eoperator, Rifledude has used both S&B and Zeiss hunters, I have only fielded Zeiss hunters - but have used S&B PMs. In my opinion, the Nightforce isn't in the same league, I'd narrow the field to Zeiss and S&B, maybe throw in Swaro for good measure: more apples-to-apples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2010 at 14:11
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Does the S&B have a water-shedding coating?

 
No.  And speaking of Swarovski, although they do have a water-shedding coating ("Swaroclean") and have for a few years now, for some reason, they haven't migrated it over to their rifle scopes.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eoperator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2010 at 20:43
Purchased The Schmidt&Bender 2.5-10x40 Summit a couple days ago, 100% satisfied. Crystal clear glass [no fuzzy edges], fast easy to find sight picture, perfect tracking, excelent low light performance, all in a small lightweight package for much less $  when compared to zeiss or swarovski.  At the same magnification offers 30-40 min shooting light over 4-14x40 Nikon, 20min over Leupold vx3 4.5-14x40, 10-15min over Zeiss conquest 4.5-14x44.
 
Salesman told me the 1" S&B model has 1 or 2 less lenses inside to ease assembly of scope, is this possible ? If so why don't they do the same with 30mm models to increase light transmission?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bugsNbows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2010 at 10:09
If a salesman said it then it must be right! Right? LOL. Anyway, congrats on a fine scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2010 at 10:47
Originally posted by eoperator eoperator wrote:

Salesman told me the 1" S&B model has 1 or 2 less lenses inside to ease assembly of scope, is this possible ? If so why don't they do the same with 30mm models to increase light transmission?


The number, placement, and types of lenses inside a scope, especially in a scope of this class, is the product of the intended optical design and performance objectives, not some arbitrary decision based on how easy it is to assemble.  Your salesman is full of crap, to put it politely. 

You chose a very high quality scope that will provide you with many years of no-compromise performance.  Enjoy!
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2010 at 11:46
Originally posted by eoperator eoperator wrote:

At the same magnification offers 30-40 min shooting light over 4-14x40 Nikon, 20min over Leupold vx3 4.5-14x40, 10-15min over Zeiss conquest 4.5-14x44.
 



BS Flag


Though, in my opinion, emoticons are gay, that deserved a BS flag.  I've hunted the very best and the very worst optics - and have NEVER seen an optic on either end of the spectrum that would alter safe shooting time by 30-40 minutes.   Night vision, sure, but conventional optics?  And 10-15 minutes over Conquest?


Had to be done!  Twice!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c1steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/20/2010 at 22:42
I am also looking for a scope for a 300 WSM, but was thinking something with illumination would be ideal.  Does anyone think this is very important?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2010 at 09:37
Illumination is great in failing light or when hunting by moonlight.

Be aware that some illumination systems stink (like the old IORs) and some are really great (like the new IORs), so don't assume illumination is illumination.

I have yet to see a scope under $1,000 that had a good battery-operated illumination system, so spending "a little" might get you bright lights in the reticle, and they will probably be too bright.  Just FYI.

For a hunting scope, Trijicon Accupoints are about as good as it gets for illuminated reticles.  They are tritium reticles so no "on-off" switch, just always on - at least for 12 years or so.  They make a 2.5-10X56 that is a great scope and would fit well on any 300WSM 9other than a mountain gun, the 2.5-10 is a big scope.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote c1steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2010 at 10:01
Would the Accupoint be better than a Burris Euro w/E-dot?  I was also thinking about a NF in 2.5-10, but it has only a 32mm objective.  Not sure if that would enough for low light use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/21/2010 at 10:09
Originally posted by c1steve c1steve wrote:

Would the Accupoint be better than a Burris Euro w/E-dot?  I was also thinking about a NF in 2.5-10, but it has only a 32mm objective.  Not sure if that would enough for low light use.
 
Burris has a decent illumination system in their Electro-Dot models.  A buddy of mine has the 1.5-6X40 E-dot scope, and it has a wide ill intensity range that gets dim enough for night use without over-illuminating the inside of the scope.  They are well under a grand.  I can recommend those.
 
However, I do like the Accupoints better than the Burris E-dots.  I think Accupoint is a little better optically to my eyes, and I like Trijicon's unique worry-free illumination system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jleinum09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 00:14
C1 steve, having an illuminated reticle and a standard reticle depends on what you would be using the rifle for.  If you are hunting in low light situations like dawn and dusk, or in a place where you can hunt after dusk, which is illegal in most states, an illuminated reticle would be very effective. If you are still looking at a schmidt and bender, i would either go with the Zenith 2.5-10x42 flashdot or the 3-12x50 flastdot .  They are very bright and great for low light conditions.  All in all, with the light transmission of the S&B plus the flashdot, you would have no problem hunting in very low light conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 10:07
I haven't used S&Bs hunters so must defer to others on that.

I do like the NF2.5-10.  At 10X, yea, 32mm would be limiting, but how often do you need 10X in low light?  If the target is so far away you need 10X, it's probably not a smart shot to take.


If you have the $$ already set aside, I would be surprised if you weren't exceptionally pleased with an S&B Zenith.



Originally posted by jleinum09 jleinum09 wrote:

...or in a place where you can hunt after dusk, which is illegal in most states...


I like how you threw that in, just for good measure, I guess.  In the south, many states allow hog hunting at night. Just FYI.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jleinum09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 10:33
Rancid, thankyou for clearing that up.  I have also heard of that and was not completely sure, since i have never been.  The zenith would be an excellent choice for C1steve if hunting at night, i can assure. They are excellent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 18:34
I concur on the Zenith w/ Flashdot.  I have a 1.5-6X42 Zenith w/ #9 Flashdot.  It's one of my favorite scopes.  It is outstanding in low light and optically superb.  The illumination system is excellent, especially since the center dot is projected onto the reticle and the dot is not a permanent part of the reticle when illumination is turned off.
 
Unfortunately, it's also outrageously expensive!  The Zeniths have gone up in price by $400 - $500 since I bought mine only 3 years ago!
 
The other disadvantage to the Zenith is they are quite heavy compared to competing scopes of the same magnification, and it has relatively little W/E adjustment travel compared to competing scopes.
 
As long as weight isn't an issue, and your mount setup allows you to keep your W/E adjustments relatively close to center, the Zeniths are absolutely superb scopes!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 18:38
Originally posted by jleinum09 jleinum09 wrote:

If you are still looking at a schmidt and bender, i would either go with the Zenith 2.5-10x42 flashdot or ...
 
Just FYI, S&B doesn't make a 2.5-10X42 in the Zenith series; only 2.5-10X56.  Of course, that makes it even better for low light use, but at the expense of more weight and higher mounts required.
Ted


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