OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Target
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Long range 101 + amendments
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

Long range 101 + amendments

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Long range 101 + amendments
    Posted: June/22/2010 at 17:09

First and foremost, what follows below will not make you a good long range shooter.  The purpose of this brief introduction is to acquaint you, the novice, with basic concepts in long range optics.   Absolutely nothing stated herein can function as a suitable substitute for formal instruction, training, and practice. There is no "quick fix" or magic optic that will turn a novice into an F class champion shooter or a super secret squirrel sniper.

 

Prior to an educated discussion on long range shooting, we must first establish vocabulary.

 

A "sniper rifle" is a precision rifle issued to a billeted law enforcement or military shooter.  Yes, several companies market rifles with the word "sniper" in their model designation (Remington Police Sniper Special, for example), but in educated circles, a sniper rifle is not what a civilian takes to a range for punching holes in paper.

 

A "long range rifle" is nothing more than a precision rifle deployed against distant targets.  There are no specific traits that make a rifle a "long range" rifle. (There are traits that make a rifle NOT a long range rifle.)

 

A "long range scope" is an optical aiming device designed to magnify the target to a sufficient degree to allow accurate shot placement at range.  Since some shooters can group rounds at 1,000 yards with open sights, we shall dispense with the absolutes regarding optics at long range.  One need not mount a 20X scope to make accurate 600 yard shots.

 

What follows below is not intended to be all-inclusive.  This is not a guide to purchasing a competitive benchrest optic, nor does this information apply to "long range hunting" - which I highly discourage in big game hunting.  The information is meant to apply to new shooters wanting to move into "long range" target shooting.

 

 

 

Before we dive into specifics, one more clarification

 

I am a visual learner, the picture below demonstrates the difference between the frequently misused terms "precision" and "accuracy"  You can have one, or both, or neither.

Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
stork23raz View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/10/2009
Location: Tennessee
Status: Offline
Points: 676
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stork23raz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 17:34
Super

Everyone who comes to this forum needs to read this before they start posting.
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 10:28
Back to Top
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4353
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote trigger29 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 17:54
This is a very good article RC. The points you make are accurate, yet simple enough to understand. Hopefully, some will read this before posting all their questions about the new long range craze. Good solid info.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Back to Top
shooter07 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Shooting Sprout

Joined: June/12/2010
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 5120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shooter07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 18:22
Rancid, 

Awesome piece. Something tells me it had a little something to do with that 1500 yard target scope thread. Wink

This makes me feel better about my first long range target build. I went with a Remington700 SPS Tactical .308 package with 20" heavy barrel in a B&C medalist light tactical stock. I've been shooting since i was able to hold guns but i knew being my first step into long range shooting, i wasn't going to be a "mall ninja" or "tacticool". I wanted a fairly affordable project to start out with. I've shot bigger calibers but this was just a well rounded and well priced venture.

Most of my shooting with be 600 yards and in, with a few here and there over that distance. Rancid you're making me feel even better about my choice of Bushnell's 6500 elite 2.5-16x42 with DOA reticle for the distances ill be shooting at.

I love OT because there are a good # of very knowledgeable people that will give no bs advice. This is a thread, all people new to the mid-long range game, should read. 
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"Issac Newton invented gravity because some asshole hit him with an apple"
-Chris Moltisanti
Back to Top
lucytuma View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: November/25/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 18:57
Excellent read and alot of valuable information.  I'm going to re-read it.
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
Back to Top
lucytuma View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: November/25/2007
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 5389
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucytuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 19:31

After re-reading it, I was wondering if some one could add more input in the area of "matching turret to reticle". I would like a more detailed explanation of this information.

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." - Thomas Jefferson
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 20:43
If a turret is in increments of mils and the reticle is in increments of mils (in an FFP scope or an SFP scope at a designated power setting), there is no math in adjusting fire:
1.  define the mil correction on the reticle
2.  click in on the turret
3.  fire.

 If the reticle is in mils and the turret is in MOA:
1.  determine the correction in mils on the reticle
2.  convert mils to MOA
3.  check your math
4.  get pissed off that the battery just died in your solar calculator because it is an overcast day
5.  ask the guy next to you how many mils are in a minute of angle
6.   figure out what a .25MOA adjustment is at 400 yards
7.  hope you didn't screw up the math
8.  Click in adjustment in MOA (1/4MOA at 400 yards equals a 1-inch movement per click on target)
9.  fire
10. wonder what you screwed up because your round isn't on paper
11. recheck math
...

It is doable.  Most who have been shooting for 15 years or more have had to learn to do it.  But it ain't the best way.

Another monkey in the wrench is the fact that MOA are usually broken out in 0.25MOA increments rather than in tenths, like a mil.  Mils are easy, easier to break up, easier to calculate - at least for anyone with base-10 math skills, base-4 math skills, not so much.



Make more sense or confuse things even more?
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dale Clifford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 20:51
or just range in with a lrf, dial in the moa directly , and circumvent the mil vs. moa altogether.
I love little league baseball-- it keeps the kids out of the house
Yogi Bera

Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 21:00
Or that.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 21:02
If you do happen to own/use a mil reticle/MOA turret, a Mil Dot Master can be a life-saver.

Mil-Dot Master
Mil-Dot Master
Stock # - MD1
  • Estimating Target Size
  • Determining Range to Target
  • Correcting for Bullet Drop
  • Correcting for Wind Drift
  • Correcting for Uphill/Downhill
  • Correcting Correction to Mil (holdover)
  • Correcting Correction to MOA (sight adjustment)
$29.95



Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master

Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Status: Offline
Points: 2596
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 338LAPUASLAP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 21:45

very nice...

simple read ...
 
what is that old K>I>S>S
No one
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 22:10
Tag.

ILya
Back to Top
helo18 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar

Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5620
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote helo18 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/22/2010 at 22:35
Tag for info.
To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

GEORGE WASHINGTON
Back to Top
SVT_Tactical View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Chief Sackscratch

Joined: December/17/2009
Location: NorthCackalacky
Status: Offline
Points: 31233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 06:16
Great job RC
"Most folks are about as happy as they make their minds up to be" - Abraham Lincoln
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 11:59
very nice write up, Jeff.  Not too much information to absorb in a first read, well "designed", lead in for the sequals to come...
I know you labored over whether to do this or not...
Good job. 
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 9318
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 13:37
No, I labored over whether or not to post this, the wondering started after the doing was complete.

Another more in-depth is coming soon.  This is very, very basic, but will answer many questions for new shooters.  I hope.
Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn.
Equality is something you whine about not being given.
Back to Top
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 14964
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 14:29
Thanks for your effort we do seem to get the same questions over and over.

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
Bobby Paul Doherty
Texas Ranger
Back to Top
RifleDude View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
EVIL OPPRESSOR

Joined: October/13/2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 16337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 17:38
Great job, Jeff! 
Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
Back to Top
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/07/2009
Location: Benton, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4678
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 17:50
Thanks for that wealth of info.RC. Like the sign says"Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken"Bow
Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken
Back to Top
shooter07 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight
Avatar
Shooting Sprout

Joined: June/12/2010
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 5120
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shooter07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/23/2010 at 18:43
Rancid,

Do you know how long its been since i heard "Mall Ninjas"?

Just re-read the entire thing + amendments.  Very good stuff.
Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

"Issac Newton invented gravity because some asshole hit him with an apple"
-Chris Moltisanti
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 1.023 seconds.