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smallest elk caliber?

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300S&W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 12:07
 
       I'm hopin' so.  Actually I haven't used it that much in the past number of yrs.  This yr I'll be hunting some wide open spaces that I use to hunt so......................... 
 
 


Edited by 300S&W - June/10/2011 at 12:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hunterwingler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 12:23

100gr montec from G5 &  my Bear Charger Bow :-). like i have said in other post its shot place meant. Ive known ppl that have used a 22 mag to kill an elk.

I wasn't upset about the black cat crossing my path this morning but mouthing "your fu@#ed" as he passed was just rude.

If Guns kill people mine are all defective
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 12:23
Thats Purty country there!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 12:25
Originally posted by budperm budperm wrote:

Thats Purty country there!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 12:35
Just keep in mind that if you take a shot @ 500 yards and it is poorly placed (could be wind, could be the animal moving) with the bullet's diminishing energy it could be a big problem. If the elk got into cover and wasn't wounded fatally, you might not ever find it. Even after a few hours on a warmish day it most of the meat will be worthless. Consider also that you'll need to have a better than average scope and a really good idea of range and ballistics out past 350 yards. Most of these cartridges will be dropping 5, 6, 7+ inches every 25 yards after that. Will you have a good idea of where to hold if the animal is 20 degrees uphill @ 450 yards?

That said, you could use a .270, 7mm-08, .308 or .30-06 reasonably out to 300-350 yards and be pretty certain of a good, clean shot. Beyond that would depend on conditions, ability and knowledge, perhaps offset somewhat by a more powerful cartridge.

Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 13:10
Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

What would be the smallest caliber rifle you would feel comfortable with, to hunt elk at ranges up to and including 500 yards.
 
If all I had was a 7-08, I wouldn't cancel an elk hunting trip or pass up any shots at the biggest bull.  If I was limited to factory ammo only (which I wouldn't subject myself to, but I'll play along), I'd pick fodder capped off with a good controlled expansion 140, such as Federals loads with the 140 TSX, Trophy Bonded, or Partition... whichever shot best in my rifle.
 
In fact, there's nothing in the lower 48 that I'd be hesitant to aim a 7-08 at if forced to... assuming good shot placement and reasonable range, which should be the goal no matter what you're shooting.


ted, would you say the same about a 308, or are  you among the crowd that touts the 7-08 as an improvement over the original?
 
I'd have no hesitation to use a .308 on elk.  Basically, anything a .30-06 will do, a .308 will do almost as well until you get to bullets weighing over 180 gr.
 
I just like 7-08 better due to better BC at distance... and because it's cool.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 13:28
This is an interesting thread.

The 500 yard requirement limits the "minimum" choices, IMO.  I think the normal "minimum" calibers for elk are totally out of the picture with that outside range requirement.  These include .243 Win (not optimal at any range), and any of the .25s.  These calibers will kill elk reliably at modest ranges, and excellent marksmanship.

I think the .260 would be my minimum, given the OP's requirements.

7-08 is absolutely up to the task, and is one of the greatest all-around game cartridges available.

270 is no problem either.

280 and up are fine.

Like Ted said, the bullet is the key.  A tough bullet with good BC should be chosen.  I load my 7-08 with 140 grain Barnes TTSX, and would be absolutely confident in the bullet putting down the biggest bull with that load, even out to 500.

-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ckk1106 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 14:45
I killed a cow elk at 305 yards with a 270 win using 150 grain nosler partitions and max load of RL 22.  Bullet didn't pass through, but did the job.  I probably wouldn't take a shot that was longer than that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 18:44
I feel relatively certain that you could kill them with a .243 using a Barnes bullet or a Nosler Partition with good shot placement but it certainly would not be my first choice. Ive always been told that 30-06 is the minimum for anything that will likely kill you back given the opportunity and elk and moose do occasionally stomp someone which leaves me wanting .375 H&H but I'd have no problem using my 300 WSM or 300 WM. I know a guy here who shoots them every year with his  270 and he kills them all the time. Sometimes you just have to kill them with what you have, its been done for a long time with flint spears and stone tipped arrows.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/10/2011 at 21:39
25-06
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375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 300S&W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 06:50
 
   +1   With a 115gr Nosler Partition at 3200fps.  Never tried it but wouldn't be afraid to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2011 at 07:15
<.243 is all good. Shot placement is always the key to taking any game clean. Larger calibers buy you range and a bit of shooter-error, but not as much as most believe. 
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dyelynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 17:52
first i'd like to address the "shot placement" statements. 
I guess I took it for granted that any hunter would be aiming for vitals, or (if so inclined and prepared for it) the head... with a reasonable expectation of hitting what you're aiming at.  a poorly placed shot, or a shot taken with ignorance or unfamiliarity of the rifle, scope or combination of them both is not at all what i had in mind here.

I think .243 and 25-06 are the smallest calibers i saw mentioned.  Question for those that mentioned these, what would your max range be on an elk given your "best bullet" with these rifles?

Honestly, i thought i'd get the .270win as the smallest viable (subjective) for elk, so i'm pretty surprised to see all the smaller calibers in here.

I guess my next question should be "what would your largest caliber be for small black-tail"... although i think with so many non-magnum options and stuff 30.06 and under, i don't really need it.

thanks for everyone's input :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ernie Bishop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 18:16
I have taken cow and bull elk with the equivalent of a 7-08 out to and just beyond your max distance you gave.
260 Rem would be another.
FWIW-I have a friend that has taken several bulls with the 6XC. 
Not my idea of an elk cartridge, but if you wreck the vitals, he is dying.

I guess I would be more interested in what you do have, and what kind of field shooting skill you have with the guns you own?
E
Ernie



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 308 Sav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 18:20
if you adhere to 1500 ft pounds for elk
243 100 g 200 would be a stretch
I say a 308 with a barns mrx you could go 475

so depends on your range and where you hunt.

I would take a 243 to 200 and feel comfortable.
But I would use my 308.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 20:41
i would take an elk at 350-400yds with a good quality .257 diam bullet. the 25-06 doesnt lose much out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/13/2011 at 21:07
Originally posted by 308 Sav 308 Sav wrote:

if you adhere to 1500 ft pounds for elk


I don't, and I'm not sure where they came up with the number.  It is the damaged tissue that kills the elk, not the energy.  Ask a bow-killed bull.


Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:


I think .243 and 25-06 are the smallest calibers i saw mentioned.  Question for those that mentioned these, what would your max range be on an elk given your "best bullet" with these rifles?


I think I would feel OK with a Barnes out to 300 or so.  The 25-06 being better.  Of course, the Elkinator is a 300 RUM.Big Smile

Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:


I guess my next question should be "what would your largest caliber be for small black-tail".


Fifty.Sharp Shooter


I really think great blacktail/elk combo cartridges would be 7-08, 270, 280, 30-06, and any 7 magnum or 30 magnum.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dyelynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2011 at 09:37
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:



I think I would feel OK with a Barnes out to 300 or so.  The 25-06 being better.  Of course, the Elkinator is a 300 RUM.Big Smile

I thought the 338wm was the elkinator :p

Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:


Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:


I guess my next question should be "what would your largest caliber be for small black-tail".


Fifty.Sharp Shooter

is that so you don't leave anything to clean?
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:



I really think great blacktail/elk combo cartridges would be 7-08, 270, 280, 30-06, and any 7 magnum or 30 magnum.

i've been eyballing the 7mm rem as my target caliber for a while, but figured it'd be a nice topic of discussion here :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitterroot Bulls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2011 at 13:27
Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:


I thought the 338wm was the elkinator :p


There is only one Elkinator:

http://www.opticstalk.com/swarovski-z3-412x50-brh-reticle_topic27412.html


Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:


i've been eyballing the 7mm rem as my target caliber for a while, but figured it'd be a nice topic of discussion here :)


A 7 Mag will do everything you want.  That is a great choice.  a 140 grain or 160 grain Accubond would be just about right.
-Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/14/2011 at 13:53
Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:


I thought the 338wm was the elkinator :p


There is only one Elkinator:

http://www.opticstalk.com/swarovski-z3-412x50-brh-reticle_topic27412.html


Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:


i've been eyballing the 7mm rem as my target caliber for a while, but figured it'd be a nice topic of discussion here :)


A 7 Mag will do everything you want.  That is a great choice.  a 140 grain or 160 grain Accubond would be just about right.


Absolutely, a 7mm rem mag is a great choice for blacktail and more!!

I think I mentioned using one to hunt blacktails in No. Cal for years now (in the past, so has my brother and a couple of cousins). My next rifle for deer hunting will probably be a 7mm-08 to compliment my 7mm.



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