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Ilya, I'm Gonna Be In Trouble

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Jon A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2012 at 17:18
I'm anxious to take a look at these VX6's as well.  If the glass is really that good at those prices they may have gone from lagging behind to jumping back to the front of the pack with these scopes.  Fast focus eyepiece, fixed eye relief, etc, nice.

On the CDS's, I've been using BDC knobs of my own making for a long time and they really are nice for hunting and general use out to medium ranges.  It really is much faster to dial to the range than look up a number in a chart and dial that (most people wont memorize). 

While frowned upon by many, most of the reasons can be overcome by simply using your head and understanding their limitations (don't expect the dial made for zero elevation to work perfectly at extreme ranges at 9000 ft, etc,--have a separate dial made for each location).

The way I do it with mils/moa included on the turret with the yardage lets you have your cake and eat it too somewhat, but it really isn't needed for a specific hunt until you get to ranges far beyond "medium." 

The pop-up/locking layout is also a good compromise for hunting use if it works well.  I have no problem with exposed turrets if they're really stiff as they are on some tactical scopes, but when they turn too easily they become a liability.  Requiring them to pop up can work very well.
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rustic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rustic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2012 at 18:02
Originally posted by Jon A Jon A wrote:

I'm anxious to take a look at these VX6's as well.  If the glass is really that good at those prices they may have gone from lagging behind to jumping back to the front of the pack with these scopes.  Fast focus eyepiece, fixed eye relief, etc, nice.

On the CDS's, I've been using BDC knobs of my own making for a long time and they really are nice for hunting and general use out to medium ranges.  It really is much faster to dial to the range than look up a number in a chart and dial that (most people wont memorize). 

While frowned upon by many, most of the reasons can be overcome by simply using your head and understanding their limitations (don't expect the dial made for zero elevation to work perfectly at extreme ranges at 9000 ft, etc,--have a separate dial made for each location).

The way I do it with mils/moa included on the turret with the yardage lets you have your cake and eat it too somewhat, but it really isn't needed for a specific hunt until you get to ranges far beyond "medium." 

The pop-up/locking layout is also a good compromise for hunting use if it works well.  I have no problem with exposed turrets if they're really stiff as they are on some tactical scopes, but when they turn too easily they become a liability.  Requiring them to pop up can work very well.
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I have 3 cds dials so far --- for different temps and elevations. I use the same ammo for everything.


Edited by rustic - January/07/2012 at 22:03
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Jon A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2012 at 18:12
Good job, that's the way to do it.

Edited by Jon A - January/07/2012 at 18:13
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JGRaider View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2012 at 19:18
Hey Jon A.....can you give me a short course on mils?  I totally understand the MOA adjustments, just not mils.  

How do you make your own dials?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thundey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/07/2012 at 23:51
Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

N i i c e 300.......I know Bitterroot, it's a bitter pill to swallow, and I haven't even bought the darn thing yet.  I may be already guilty for just thinking about it.  I gave my FX to a good kid down the street, and gave my coonass hunting buddy the Elite, so I need something else.......


Whoooooaaaa.......  If you're in the business of giving away good optics please put my name somewhere on the list.  I'll even make it easy on you and schedule fedex to stop and pick it up to make things easier on you.Cool
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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2012 at 00:14
JG,

Keep in mind that I have not had a chance to properly test the VX-6, but my brief look suggested that these are nice scopes.

Whether they are better than VX-7 is had to say off hand.  VX-7 was pretty decent optically, though a little overpriced.  VX-6 is a little cheaper than VX-7 was and if it is at least as good it should be very good for the money.

If the optical quality meets my expectations and the scope proves to be durable, I suspect that the VX-6 2-12x42 with illuminated #4 reticle and CDS available will prove to be the best general purpose hunting scope in Leupold's history.

ILya
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Jon A View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jon A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2012 at 20:20
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Originally posted by JGRaider JGRaider wrote:

Hey Jon A.....can you give me a short course on mils?  I totally understand the MOA adjustments, just not mils. 

Sure.  They're really very easy to use, they may sound scary to some who've only used MOA but once you jump in you'll figure them out very quickly.

It's an angle, just like MOA.  The easiest way to define and visualize it is a mil is one at a thousand.  One yard at 1000 yds, one foot at 1000 feet, one inch at 1000 inches, one hand at 1000 hands (for the horse people)....  So at 100 yds a mil is 0.1 yds which is obviously 3.6".  10 Mils at 100 is 36" which makes it nice and handy to check reticle calibration as well as tracking accuracy since everybody has a yardstick:



But none of that stuff really matters much to the average hunter.  The big thing you'll notice is most Mil scopes in hunting power ranges will adjust in 0.1 Mil increments, which is .36" at 100 yds.  This makes them a nice compromise between 1/4 MOA and 1/2 MOA clicks (very close to 1/3 MOA) between precision and speed (adjusting in fewer clicks, having more travel in a single turn of the knob).

The only thing you need to do to use them different from an MOA scope is have whatever ballistics program you're using print the dope and take your personal notes (logbook or whatever) in Mils instead of MOA.  The numbers will look different, but they're just as easy to use.  Actually I find them nicer to use--for example, instead of your dope for 1000 yds being 25.75 or 25 ¾ MOA it would be 7.5 Mils.  Two digits, no fractions.  For me that's simply easier to read off a PDA, enter in drop chart, read off a drop chart, call out to my buddy, etc.  With something like a 300 RUM, the dropchart all the way out to 1300-1400 yds is made up of simple two digit numbers.

Here's an example dropchart:



But that's not really a big deal, just personal preference.  And if you're using a yardage BDC, you wouldn't even notice any of the above when dialing for distance.  I do also find it's much easier to memorize your wind in Mils (it'll be a nice single digit number for most shots you'd take hunting) if your reticle gives you the ability to hold off precisely.

Anyway, I think much of the above will be moot for the VX-6's as I'd expect most of them to come in MOA but the upcoming MK6's I'd expect to mostly use Mils. 

Quote How do you make your own dials?


I've made Excel spreadsheets containing the BDC for many different scopes.  I just print them out on label paper and apply them to the turret sandwiched in a layer of packaging tape.  It takes some time to get a new scope figured out, but once I do I can change the yardages for a different load and swap on a new label in a few minutes.  Here are a few examples:







Here's an MOA example on a Weaver:



The pic of the Weaver above is a good example of what I was talking about.  The yardages were set up for an elk hunt at 6000 ft in Montana, but that pics was later at 3000 ft in Washington so naturally the numbers were way off at such long range.  But with MOA on the dial I was able to simply ignore the yardages on the BDC and dial the correct MOA for the conditions.  It's hard to fit on some lower profile (which I like for hunting) turrets, as you can see I had to make them pretty small to fit on the March.

I could have the knobs laser engraved if I ever felt the need for more permanence but I find I change them often enough I haven't worried about it yet.  Kenton can make similar ones for many scopes as well.

But again I mostly get use of that feature in the offseason.  If you have a knob made with accurate data for the location and average weather for the time of year for a hunt, changes in the weather aren't going to have much affect until you get into some really long distances.  Bigger guns shooting higher BC bullets will be less affected by changes in weather obviously so such changes can be ignored out to a farther distance.



Edited by Jon A - January/08/2012 at 20:26
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Kickboxer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2012 at 20:27
Some good info there...
I also use excel spreadsheets for my scopes... 
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/08/2012 at 21:04
That's some impressive stuff, and thanks for posting and educating me.  Those turrets are sweet. Being new to this game,  I can already see how having Ydg and MOA on the same turret would help.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/09/2012 at 21:55
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If the optical quality meets my expectations and the scope proves to be durable, I suspect that the VX-6 2-12x42 with illuminated #4 reticle and CDS available will prove to be the best general purpose hunting scope in Leupold's history.

ILya
I don't use holdover reticles. I was thinking of having the LR Duplex for speed if there wasn't time to dial. Maybe a good combination. I am also a big fan of the #4.
Now I'm in trouble, too. Either way, this scope sounds like a winner.
Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2012 at 08:07
tahqua, for guys like you who like the LR reticle, and if the VX6 turns out to be all it's supposed to be, it would offer the best of  both worlds, standard.  All of the VX6 scopes are CDS compatible as standard procedure.  I got a heck of a deal on one with the std duplex.  We'll see.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/10/2012 at 11:25
Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

If the optical quality meets my expectations and the scope proves to be durable, I suspect that the VX-6 2-12x42 with illuminated #4 reticle and CDS available will prove to be the best general purpose hunting scope in Leupold's history.

ILya
I don't use holdover reticles. I was thinking of having the LR Duplex for speed if there wasn't time to dial. Maybe a good combination. I am also a big fan of the #4.
Now I'm in trouble, too. Either way, this scope sounds like a winner.

LR Duplex, like all holdover reticles in SFP scopes, implies that you are keenly aware of what magnification you are at when you take that quick shot.

Generally, this is well outside my field of expertise, but if the target is far enough to require significant enough holdover for such a reticle to be useful, do you want to be taking it so quickly that you do not have time to turn you BDC knob to the right position?

ILya
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