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tahqua
MODERATOR
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?
Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9042
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Posted: January/30/2012 at 23:31 |
Once again we have a quote from not only state regulations, but a manufacturers website. Rustic, I am still calling you out for proof of this .204 exploit on 250 lb. deer! BTW, a .257 is a pussycat, even in the Wby guise!
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Doug
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Sparky
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: July/15/2007
Location: SD
Status: Offline
Points: 4569
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Posted: January/30/2012 at 23:33 |
One if you are using Berger VLD bullets then why did you list the Hornady website???
Two I looked on the Berger website and they do not list a VLD bullet for the .204 cal.
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rustic
Optics Master
Joined: September/30/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1461
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Posted: January/30/2012 at 23:40 |
tahqua wrote:
Once again we have a quote from not only state regulations, but a manufacturers website. Rustic, I am still calling you out for proof of this .204 exploit on 250 lb. deer! BTW, a .257 is a pussycat, even in the Wby guise! |
OK! I will post pic of the deer in the mourning. I would call the the .257 ballistics above average. 115 gr http://www.weatherby.com/product/ammunition/ballistic?ammo1=.257+Wby.&ammo2=.257+Wby.&compare=Compare
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rustic
Optics Master
Joined: September/30/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1461
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Posted: January/30/2012 at 23:48 |
Sparky wrote:
One if you are using Berger VLD bullets then why did you list the Hornady website???
Two I looked on the Berger website and they do not list a VLD bullet for the .204 cal.
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You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?" It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
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tahqua
MODERATOR
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?
Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9042
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Posted: January/30/2012 at 23:49 |
If you consider the recoil energy of a .270 WIN, and the .257 Wby has less in equal weight rifles, it is indeed brutal.
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Doug
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rustic
Optics Master
Joined: September/30/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1461
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Posted: January/30/2012 at 23:55 |
tahqua wrote:
If you consider the recoil energy of a .270 WIN, and the .257 Wby has less in equal weight rifles, it is indeed brutal. |
He had use something else. Both his 257 and 300 wby mark v's kicked like mules and fairly close to each other in recoil.
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tahqua
MODERATOR
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?
Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9042
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:06 |
I don't believe that for a minute as I have shot both quite a bit in Mark V's. In fact I have shot Mark V's in .240, .340, .378 and .460. The Mark V is a heavy gun and in the lighter calibers, with the Weatherby Mark V stock, is very easy on the shoulder.
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Doug
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Sparky
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: July/15/2007
Location: SD
Status: Offline
Points: 4569
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:08 |
rustic wrote:
Sparky wrote:
One if you are using Berger VLD bullets then why did you list the Hornady website???
Two I looked on the Berger website and they do not list a VLD bullet for the .204 cal.
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You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?" It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
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Really??? I do not think so! What about why did you list the Hornady website when you are using Berger VLD bullets that are not even listed for a .204???
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tahqua
MODERATOR
Have You Driven A Ford Lately?
Joined: March/27/2006
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 9042
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:16 |
rustic wrote:
You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?" It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
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What does releasing all energy into the animal amount to if the bullet blows up and doesn't penetrate to the vitals?
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Doug
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rustic
Optics Master
Joined: September/30/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1461
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:41 |
tahqua wrote:
rustic wrote:
You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?" It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
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What does releasing all energy into the animal amount to if the bullet blows up and doesn't penetrate to the vitals? |
There seems to be two schools of thought on this from what I can see. Berger/hornady is advertizing if the bullet fragments before going all the way through the animal therefore releasing all energy in the animal. Other manufactures like nosler/barnes bullets advertize weight retention all the way through the animal. I personally use barnes tipped TSX's and the work fine for me. I guess... six to half dozen to the other??
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helo18
Optics Jedi Knight
Joined: December/02/2006
Location: Montana
Status: Offline
Points: 5620
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:45 |
I hunt with the V-max 50 gr in my 22-250 for varmints. I would not use them on deer unless it was my last option, and the deer was well with in 100 yards. Preferably 50. And if I was going to shoot a deer with a 22-250 (which people do), I would use a 75+ gr regular bullets, not a V-max. Just my personal preference.
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To be prepared for War is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.
GEORGE WASHINGTON
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rustic
Optics Master
Joined: September/30/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1461
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 00:55 |
helo18 wrote:
I hunt with the V-max 50 gr in my 22-250 for varmints. I would not use them on deer unless it was my last option, and the deer was well with in 100 yards. Preferably 50. And if I was going to shoot a deer with a 22-250 (which people do), I would use a 75+ gr regular bullets, not a V-max. Just my personal preference. |
The barnes bullets I use have worked great for me and do go all the way through on every deer I have shot with them. The v-max my dad has been using did not go all the way through on his buck and two doe mule deer could not find an exit hole but, worked just fine. His deer were every bit as dead as mine.
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pyro6999
Optics Retard
OT TITAN
Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22034
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:02 |
im just gonna shake my head in disgust and walk away from this train wreck. a .204 on deer really?? come on south dakota what are you thinking with your 1000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle??
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They call me "Boots" 375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"
343 we will never forget
God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy"
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pyro6999
Optics Retard
OT TITAN
Joined: December/22/2006
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 22034
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:03 |
tahqua wrote:
I don't believe that for a minute as I have shot both quite a bit in Mark V's. In fact I have shot Mark V's in .240, .340, .378 and .460. The Mark V is a heavy gun and in the lighter calibers, with the Weatherby Mark V stock, is very easy on the shoulder. |
my .300wby doesnt kick at all, i like love that rifle. i would be a little more leery of the .460 but i would sure like to try a .340.
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They call me "Boots" 375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"
343 we will never forget
God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy"
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:41 |
I guesss the whole "fair chase" ethical argument only applies to super light-weight equipment...Where as my 300 wsm has over 1000lbs of energy all the way to 1000yards... Just saying...
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Chris Farris II
TEAM SWFA - Admin
MODERATOR
Joined: August/13/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3196
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:43 |
I have and shot a .204 with 40 grain bullets on a regular basis. Also about 7 or 8 years ago when my father and I used to hunt quite a bit more, the rifles we took out on a regular basis were the .240 Wby mag and the .257 wby mag. The .257 is no where in the ballpark of kicking like a mule. Back to the .204, could you shoot a deer with it? Probably if it was a small white tail and you shot it in the neck inside of 100 yards. If I am not mistaken I think the .204 at 250 yards only has like 700 Foot lbs of energy. I shoot my .204 out to 600 yards on paper and am extrememely comfortable with my gun and its abilities with me behind it and I would not attempt a 250 yard shot on a Mule Deer out west that is probably upwards of 200 lbs. My last 2 mulies both field dressed at over 200. Even if you did make a clean lucky shot, after taking into account the wind and the drop of that round, and happen to drop him in his tracks it is still inhumane. The risks of wounding it and it running off are far greater than you dropping him where he stands with that round at that range. With that being said, what the weather conditions like that day? Do you have any idea how much a .204 moves in ONLY a 10 mph hour wind at 250 yards?
Edited by Chris Farris II - January/31/2012 at 09:07
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One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master
Joined: October/31/2009
Location: Oklahoma
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 08:53 |
pyro6999 wrote:
... i would be a little more leery of the .460
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No Kidding. Actually, I'd rather have a Lott, but my friend's .460 Roy is for sale right now and is tempting. Lot's of people successfully hunt deer with a .223. I loaded/zeroed some Barnes 62 gr TSX this past season, just for that purpose, but used an old standby .30-06, instead... mainly because I'm getting too old to be dragging around a 12+ lb. AR through tough territory... definitely not an Ultra Light (fire)Arm.
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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supertool73
Optics God
Superstool
Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 09:41 |
rustic wrote:
tahqua wrote:
rustic wrote:
You are the one that said "Are bullets that fragment considered soft point or expanding bullets?" It is basically the same type of bullet --- releasing all energy into the animal.
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What does releasing all energy into the animal amount to if the bullet blows up and doesn't penetrate to the vitals? |
There seems to be two schools of thought on this from what I can see. Berger/hornady is advertizing if the bullet fragments before going all the way through the animal therefore releasing all energy in the animal. Other manufactures like nosler/barnes bullets advertize weight retention all the way through the animal. I personally use barnes tipped TSX's and the work fine for me.
I guess... six to half dozen to the other??
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In varmints many people want the bullet to explode inside of the animal
so it does not ruin the pelt on the way out. They are designed to do
that for that reason. Small varmints the internal explosion will
actually blow them apart. On big game penetration is what is
important not explosion. You want that bullet to penetrate deep enough
that it hits the organs. If it keeps going or stops at that point it
really does not matter. As long as it reaches and destroys those
vitals. They use solids alot of the time on African game. No expansion at all, just penetration to reach the vitals. Vmax are not for big game. What happens if you hit a
shoulder bone or even a rib. Now all you do it wound the animal. With a
proper big game hunting bullet if you hit bone it will break that bone
and continue to penetrate to the vitals with a varmit bullet it will
just explode. The real light weight varmint bullets will be even worse
as they have no mass to aid in penetration. They will slow very quickly
because of mass a lone. Then the explosive nature of their design will
make that even more so. And on the meat in the freezer, I don't see how that proves anything. I can show you a pick of elk in my freezer and say I shot it with anything. He may have killed a deer with a .204, but that does not make it a good choice. It is a terrible choice for many many reasons.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
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jjrgr21
Optics Journeyman
Joined: January/10/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 368
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 09:56 |
in some states you'd get your guns taken for using a vmax type bullet on a deer. and most states have a minimum caliber for deer, and it's not .204. .204 should be used specifically for varmints, and it does a hell of a job on them, a couple guys i groundhog hunt with use them. one guy pulled a 540 yd headshot, with his 204
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rustic
Optics Master
Joined: September/30/2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1461
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Posted: January/31/2012 at 10:34 |
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