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Vintage Porros

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Simon Spiers View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simon Spiers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 07:37
Some of the other nice Japanese porros are the Yashica 10x50 models, but the best of the never heard of range includes the wonderful Mirador birding binocular(see my site below).
Also the Nipon Kogaku (Nikon) models, although more expensive are a great choice.
Then the Swifts, most of the range are good, Saratoga Sport King, Audubon, Skipper......
Cool


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pierre D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2014 at 16:24
Greetings to all on this forum - hope you are still monitoring it.

Just came across this forum a couple of months ago, it rekindled my interest in vintage porro-prism binos.

Glad to see there are other like-minded "vintage bino fans" out there!

Klamath - agree with your comment in your original post from 19 February 2012:
"What I found was the Japanese porros were likely on the verge of greatness."   

   I too have collected some vintage binos, including several Japanese ones from the Japan Telescope Inspection Institute (JTII) "golden era".     

We own several vintage porro-prism binos, all with their original leather cases & accessories:

- Stesco 7x35 - made in France, vintage early 1960s
Have been in our family since new, just received them back from a complete professional restoration.

- Consort 7x35 - Japan(manufacturer: JB4 Toei Kogaku Co. Ltd.)

- Manon 10x50 - Japan (manufacturer: JB191: Seiwa Optical Co., Ltd.)

- KMart 7x50 - Japan (manufacturer: JB133 Kamakura Koki Co. Ltd.)

All are of high quality construction, materials and optics and would cost a small fortune to duplicate today, especially if made in Japan, Germany/Europe. I have have learned to do the needed maintanenance, lubrication, optics cleaning and collimation to keep them in good working order.

   The quality standards imposed by the JTII on its Japanese manufacturers resulted in a very high quality of optics for the consumer which we took for granted at the time.

   Despite the unarguable brightness, light transmission and clarity advantages of the modern binos we own, I find I still turn to our vintage "black pebble grain / all metal / leather case" binoculars to take on a trip, a hike, etc. There is, to me, something inherently more satisfying in holding these in my hand and using them - and I don't feel I am giving up much in the way of image quality.

   I also find our vintage binos, both French and Japanese, are typically easier on the eyes than some of the newer binos I have used.
I have never experienced eye strain after prolonged use of our vintage binos, but I have with some modern binos - almost as if the image is too bright for long-term use.

It's difficult to define this "non eye-straining" quality of the vintage binos, nothing to do with collimation issues, exit pupil size or anything else I can quantify.

Some of you may have noticed this too and I would be curious to hear your feedback and impressions.

I look forward to continuing this discussion on this forum!

All the best      
All the best,
Pierre
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Klamath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/02/2014 at 21:42
I have a couple of vintage porros that surely do possess the nice bright, easy on the eye view.  In fact two of them, the Bushnell Rangemaster, the early Fuji Photo Optical, needs not back down from just about anything we can buy today.  As far as I can tell it came off the Fuji line in late 1952.  Just single coated, but fully coated, everything has coating.  I was really not prepared for the view I saw.  It needs to be seen to be believed.  

The same thing applies to the Baush & Lomb Zephyr.  Mine is a rarer 8x30 model.  It had to go off for cleaning, but it needs not take backseat even to the lauded Nikon 8x32 SE.  It has a serial number that puts it being made in 1951. 
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pierre D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2014 at 11:12
Of the vintage binos I own, the best one optically is probably the Manon 10x50, though I suspect it may fall a little short of your Bausch & Lomb Rangemaster and Zephyr and Fuji binoculars.

Specs on these Manon 10x50:
-5.5 degree field
-288 ft field of view at 1000 yds.
-marked JB191 & JE17.

my assessement:
Very sharp focus out to approx 80%+ of image, very slight softeness at edge of image beyond that point. Good control of chromatic aberration too, which I was pleasantly surprised at considering the age of these binos. Optically compare very favorably with some of the US Army Issue M22 7x50 Fujinon and US issue and German army issue Steiner binoculars I have used during a 24 year career.   


The coating on the objective lens of this Manon bino puzzles me though, hope you may have some insight.

It is not the typical light bluish-purple MgF2 of that era which all our other vintage binos have.

Looking at the objective lens surface, I see a distinct yellowish gold tint, more metallic gold than amber, but also reflects an undertone of light purple when reflecting natural light. Have not seen this in any other vintage binos I have run across.
   
The ocular lenses, however, appear to be MGF2 coated, definitely not the same coating as the objective side.

I do have a question on dating a binocular by serial number - what reference documents do you use? I would like to do this for the ones we own.

I am looking at a few possible Swift 8.5 x44 Audubon binos, a bino I have always liked when borrowing from friends but never owned. will post on this forum if I manage to buy one at a decent price.


All the best     
All the best,
Pierre
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Klamath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/03/2014 at 11:33
I don't think that dating will prove very rewarding.  Most of those companies are long gone and it seems so are whatever historical references they may have been able to produce.  There may have been some realistic expectations from dating by serial number when the company was active and the information was available.  Some, notably Swift had the year of manufacture as the first two digits of the serial number.  Swift has a historical and collectors following, so information there is easier to get.

There was a "Fully Amber Coated" phase some manufacturers went through.  I do not know, nor have I been able to find out just what amber coating was.
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pierre D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/04/2014 at 11:00
Thanks for that info - I won't pursue trying to date those binoculars.

All the best,
All the best,
Pierre
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2014 at 19:37
I just came home and found a package on my doorstep!  Big Grin    I did an ebay thing the other day. I couldn't help myself.  I got a pair of binoculars that looked really clean.  They are!!

Manon 7X50 in about 98% pristine condition plus case.....umm.....$9.99 plus postage!!  They are perfect!!  Smile



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Klamath View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/10/2014 at 21:38
Want a real WOW? Smile Find a Sears Discoverer 7x50 WA with a 525 or 578' fov.
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2014 at 08:31
I got one of the Sears Discoverers! .  Ebay.  I paid about $33 to my doorstep!  Bucky



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2014 at 09:54
The Discoverer are pretty much undiscovered.  The wide field with the depth perception of a long length porro is kind of a neat experience.  There are a couple of different Discoverers, one with a standard flat prism plate and another with a sloped shoulder prism plate.  The amber coatings can be sort of susceptible to nicotine film if from a smokers environment. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2014 at 10:35
Oh.  I have the ones with the sloped shoulder look.  Are the other Discoverers good, too? 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/11/2014 at 10:40
Oh! I have a question.  What about the Sears 8 X50 binculars?  430 feet @ 1000 yds?  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pierre D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2014 at 08:53
I also bought a vintage Manon bino in Feb on eBay

paid a total of $16.49 !! price: $9.99 +ship:   $6.50
10x50, model 4026, Came with origianl leather covered hard case, OEM lens capsa w/ M<anon logo, OEM cleaning cloth and yellow prees-on filters for the eyepieces in the OEM Manon-marked Ziploc bag - was just missing the bino strap.
They are in excelent to near-mint condition, no visible paint wear or other signs of external wear and tear - and the optics are crystal clear, have an amber lens coating.

Great image, easy on the eyes during prolonged use
After the 1961 Swift Audubons, this is probably my favorite go-to bino

JB191 Seiwa Optical Co., Ltd., Wako-Shi
JE17 Otake Kogaku Kogyo Co. Ltd., Tokyo

FOV: 5.5 degrees
288 ft @ 1,000 yds



Originally posted by Son of Ed Son of Ed wrote:

I just came home and found a package on my doorstep!  Big Grin    I did an ebay thing the other day. I couldn't help myself.  I got a pair of binoculars that looked really clean.  They are!!

Manon 7X50 in about 98% pristine condition plus case.....umm.....$9.99 plus postage!!  They are perfect!!  Smile



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Pierre
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/17/2014 at 17:49
Yes....my 7X50s have gold in the front, bluish in the oculars.  Very clear and bright.  I got an inexpensive Nikon ( NOS ) strap from ebay to put on it.  Case is very good.  Oh! I also got two yellow ocular filters with it.   

Cruising for bargain binoculars is addicting.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pierre D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2014 at 13:00
Addicting it is !

Have bought several vintage binos - when I see one that gets my attention I try to justify to myself that I really don't need another bin - but sometimes that fails and the collection keeps growing.....!

I really like my Manon 10x50s, seems like you got a very nice set in 7x35!

   My most recent acquisition, about 2 weeks ago, is a 1961 Swift Audubon 8.5x44 with case and orig. leather bino strap - but no other accessories. I plan on usoing these regularly and want to keep lenses protectd so I found a batch of OEM Swift lens caps on eBay just this morning and ordered them.    
   Good, clear optics, no fungus/other contamination, with a very few small specks of dust inside which do not impair the image quality at all - I'll get around to cleaning those out soon.


I am trying to post photos of the binos I own, but I have yet to figure out how to do this on this forum. . When drafting my post, I click on the 'Insert Image' icon but it prompts me to enter the web address of the image - my photos are on the C drive of my computer, not on the web.

Appreciate your help, since I see your photos on the thread and have obviously figured it out!   


Originally posted by Son of Ed Son of Ed wrote:

Yes....my 7X50s have gold in the front, bluish in the oculars.  Very clear and bright.  I got an inexpensive Nikon ( NOS ) strap from ebay to put on it.  Case is very good.  Oh! I also got two yellow ocular filters with it.   

Cruising for bargain binoculars is addicting.  
All the best,
Pierre
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pierre D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2014 at 13:55
What specific Sears Discoverers did you get and how do you like them?
Appreciate seeing your feedback/evaluation on those.

I remember a set of Sears binos we used to have in the 70s which we had bought new at our local Sears.

They were a 7x50 if I remember correctly, and I recall them having a very good image quality.

Would like to own a good vintage Sears bino again so that will likely be my next buy. As you said, it IS addicting - but not too expensive if you search carefully!   


thanks




Originally posted by Son of Ed Son of Ed wrote:

Oh.  I have the ones with the sloped shoulder look.  Are the other Discoverers good, too? 



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Pierre
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/18/2014 at 20:35
( You have to have 50 posts in order to post a picture...)

I have the sloped-shouldered Discoverers. Model 6267.  Very clear...but the image seems to be lighter than my other binoculars.  I don't know if it's the Amber Coating or if they are dusty inside.  They are not dusty outside.  

Here's some ebay pictures.  They are cleaner now.  I cut the strap off and replaced with leather.   


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pierre D. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2014 at 20:52
Ed

Thanks for sharing picture, looks very nice! Got it on the 50-post min to post photos.

My Manon 10x50s were slightly dusty inside when I first got them - just fine dust. Cleaned them, easy job as it was mostly the inside of the objective lenses, and slight cleaning of prism faces. It did improve the image. Just be careful to not affect collimation when you take them apart and re-assemble them. I marked the position of eccentric collimation rings at objectives and reassembled them - no issue.

Those Manons have amber coating but seem to have no lighter an image than my other binos.


I'll keep looking, There is a Sears 6267 very similar to yours for sale on Ebay now, as well as a few others decent looking ones, some are discovers - one is 7X15X35 Zoom Discoverer w/ case, appears to be very clean. Orig owner. Don't know though, as I have never owned a variable power zoom models. Any thoughts ?



QUOTE=Son of Ed] ( You have to have 50 posts in order to post a picture...)

I have the sloped-shouldered Discoverers. Model 6267.  Very clear...but the image seems to be lighter than my other binoculars.  I don't know if it's the Amber Coating or if they are dusty inside.  They are not dusty outside.  

Here's some ebay pictures.  They are cleaner now.  I cut the strap off and replaced with leather.   


[/QUOTE]
All the best,
Pierre
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Son of Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2014 at 21:25
I had a zoom binocular back in 1980 ( a Bushnell ) and it was horrible.  As the power went up the image got destroyed. At 7 or 8X it was OK... But it was just no good, overall.  I would stay with fixed powers.  

I used to get headaches after using them.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Klamath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2014 at 23:19
Friends don't let friends buy zoom binoculars Big Smile.  http://www.bigbinoculars.com/nozooms.htm

Zooms are generally a bad idea.  The article in the link will explain'.
The Sears Discover binoculars both the slope shoulder and the conventional flat prism plate are generally good binoculars.  You see the 7x35 versions much more commonly than the 7x50's.

If you want a real WOW from a vintage porro glass I advise a Bushnell Rangemaster.  These come in the conventional flat prism plate style (the early one from Fuji Photo Optical) and a slope shoulder version along the lines of the Discoverer in Ed's post (the later style from Tamron).  Pretty much nothing will embarrass one of those.  Ditto a Baush & Lomb Zephyr.
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