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Sighting in a Mil/Mil Scope

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dustin198308 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dustin198308 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2014 at 00:30
I will have to agree with Rancid koolaid on this, I will go a little further on this though.
 
I do some marksmanship instructing for some people and I have had some training from some very well known people and have been shooting mil/mil for sometime now. One of the first things that anyone will tell you is to dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. It will do nothing but help you. Some of the best shooters in the world dry fire more than they actually shoot live ammo. One of the first things I do when I get to the range is get a nice steady position built, usually in the prone with the front of the gun on bags or bipods, and a sandsock under the buttstock. I will then get straight behind the gun focusing on my body position and natural point of aim, I then relax myself and start dry firing for at least 15 minutes before loading my first round, while doing this I am focusing on my point of aim, my breathing, relaxing, body position, and trigger pull. I aim my reticle at the exact point to which I will be aiming when I shoot that first round. Once everything feels just right and I am back in the groove, I will chamber my first round, these shots should be good because I've already shot them 20-30 times. One key here is the steady position of the gun, as one guy was saying about not seeing the impact exactly, with a good position and a decent scope you should always fall right back on target before the bullet impacts at distance, this should be practiced at all times. If using bipods put some forward pressure on them and take the "slack" out of them. Use your firing hand, except your firing finger and pull the gun into you. Now I will fire not 1 but 3-5 rounds not worrying about where they hit but that the group is solid. When teaching I will have students shoot at least 5 5 round groups before trying to zero, all you want here is a nice tight group. If I do not get a nice group at first I continue shooting groups until I do, sometimes taking a break and coming back to it to get the group that the particular gun should be acheiving. Then I hold the center cross hair or whatever reticle I may be using on the aiming point in which I was using, then I use it like a measuring tape and I measure the distance to that shot group. I then make corrections on the scope and shot another 3-5 round group, should be dead on at this point, maybe a minor tweak here or there until I hit the center of my group exactly where I am aiming. No point to go down range with a decent scope, 9-10 power can see a hole down range at 100 yds pretty easily. This same method works for MOA reticles or MILS, they are just units of measurement, no need to get wrapped up in what x means at y distance, just use it to measure with. I know this was a little long winded but I love to help people out with stuff like this. Thanks for listening to babble on and on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cold Trigger Finger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2014 at 13:01
Dustin ; sounds like you have a good system. I end up getting in too much of a hurry sometimes when I'm at the range. And I haven't concentrated onset fire practice. I want to get good at reading, understanding and using the mil scale reticle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rudy Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/06/2014 at 19:37
Good write up, sometimes people overthink things like this. Easiest sight in session I had was when I used a mil/mil scope, took 3 rounds only because the target wasn't big enough to see where the first shot actually went. People need to remember that this is to be used on FFP or at the proper magnification for a SFP.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critterdoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2014 at 16:29
Originally posted by Chris Farris II Chris Farris II wrote:

I have shot with people a few times who when sighting in a Mil/Mil scope will still go to the target and measure how far away it is from bullseye in inches and then try to convert it into Mils in their head. Because of this I decided to do a write up on sighting in a Mil/Mil scope. It is extremely easy when done right. You start off with your blank target.
 
 
You will then get a steady rest and fire your first shot off. The key here is a steady rest and slow steady trigger pull. If done right this will only take 2 shots so make sure it counts. You then squeze the trigger and let the gun do the work. Now You simply look at the target and see how much you missed by.
 
 
In this case your initial shot was more than 3.5 mils to the right but not quite 4 and a little less than 6 mils low. The key here is to forget about inches or any other linear measurement. Just measure with the scope, after all that is what it was designed for. Now go ahead and make your adjustments 3.7 mils to the left and 5.7 mils up. Now reaquire your target and verify your adjusments. If done properly your next shot should be in the bullseye.
 
 
This method can be used in many other circumstances also. Say you are out with some friends plinking some steel at some pretty good distances. Will you be able to measure an exact hit with it at 500 yards or more, probably not. However, when dealing with winds gusting and varying in MPH it can help a lot. You shoot and see the wind has pushed your bullet a little farther off the target than you anticipated. Instead of dialing in your windage, because the wind is varying, just measure it with your scope and hold however far off your splash in the dirt was to the side of the target in the opposite direction. It makes for very fast and very accurate adjustments/corrections in many shooting conditions. You have the equipment, use it to your advantage!

Hi Chris,

I do not have the post count to upload an image of the Burris Ballistic MilDot reticle in an XTR 312 that I recently acquired and am wondering if it might be workable to ignore the absolute relationships between the ballistic elements in the reticle below the horizontal windage axis and (with practice) estimate hold over or hold under adjustments based on visual extrapolation of relative distance on the mil dot section of the vertical axis with magnification set to 12x with this rear focal plane device.
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critterdoc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote critterdoc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/16/2014 at 07:05
Here's a hyperlink link to the ballistic Mil-Dot Reticle on the Burris website per my question in the above post.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omegabrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2014 at 13:49
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

The 2-shot sight-in is another cool thing about having matching turrets/reticle, esp. with an FFP scope.
 

is this something that i need to pay special attention to when buying a scope? i would assume that they would match, or are they known for having reticles in 1 measurement and adjustments in the other? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2014 at 15:03
Originally posted by omegabrock omegabrock wrote:

Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

The 2-shot sight-in is another cool thing about having matching turrets/reticle, esp. with an FFP scope.
 

is this something that i need to pay special attention to when buying a scope? i would assume that they would match, or are they known for having reticles in 1 measurement and adjustments in the other? 

Older scopes (as little as a few years ago) would have Mil reticles and Minute of Angle (MOA) adjustments. Of course this made sighting in a mathmatical headache. It is always best to make sure that the reticle and turret adjustments match. You can get scopes in both Mil-Mil or MOA-MOA.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cold Trigger Finger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2014 at 13:37
The SWFA SS Classic moa line of fixed power scopes have 1/4 moa adjustments. As far as I know ( admittedly not too much knowledge).
All mil dot scopes are milli radian but the adjustments " turrets" may be mil or moa. As has been said. The mil/ mil is the easiest to deal with. The SWFA " mil quad reticle being very nice and about as easy as it gets from my research.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2014 at 15:13



How do I zero with that, huh?

Huh!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sscoyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2014 at 09:43
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:




How do I zero with that, huh?

Huh!


Gawd that was funny!


Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sscoyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/23/2014 at 10:17

A couple of days ago I was out rezeroing a coyote rig (243 XP-100 pistol--2.5-8X Nikon Force pistol scope). Mom was along as spotter and I always go straight to the 425-yd. range that has steel setup at 200 and 425 yds. The problem is that at 200 yds. the steel tgt. is elevated with bushes all around, and it's almost always difficult to see bullet impact if you can't hit the steel. But the 425-yd. steel has a lot of open area all around it which provides for a great resource for observing bullet impact. What I did was boresighted with my eye through the bore at the 425-yd. target and since I know that at 400 yds. the bullet drop is ~6 MOA with most of my long-range pistols, I crank in that compensation UP into the turret and shoot. Mom spots and calls correction then I measure ~MOA correction using the 2 MOA Nikon BDC circles, shoot again to ensure 425-yds. is right on and then crank 6 MOA down, and fine tune on the 200-yd. steel. This can really be done at any distance once trajectory is known. There are many ways angular math vs. optics can be applied to accomplish a particular task, that's not only practical but rewarding too. Makes a sight-in session more fun IMO.

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wizzum69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2015 at 08:22
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:




How do I zero with that, huh?

Huh!



Tighter Choke...Maybe!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonathan88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2015 at 10:52
Very good post CFII.  Well done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/11/2015 at 14:34

Thanks for that insight Chris, us Limeys need all the help we can get when comes to Rifle shooting. However, I think I would put five down before I confident about the POA, then adjust my zero.`

My Omark M44 7.62 service rifle is not that consistent.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote outdoordreamdeals Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2015 at 10:57
Thank You. This is very easy to follow. Great shot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2imKevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2015 at 19:53
these are described in detail, I also learn a 243 XP-100 pistol - Nikon Force pistol scope 2.5-8X
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikieG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2015 at 12:39
Where can i get a pistol that only drops 6moa out to 400 yards?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2015 at 13:07
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:





How do I zero with that, huh?

Huh!




This is still one of the best one liners ever!!!


Tighter choke.......Maybe!

Edited by Peddler - August/09/2015 at 13:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sambubba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2015 at 19:11
I have a Minox tactical 5x25 and the adjustment dial says each click is 1/10th of mm. Isn't that like .03 of an inch? I am having one heck of a time with tracking and setting final zero. All help will be appreciated.Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sscoyote Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2015 at 16:20

Originally posted by MikieG MikieG wrote:

Where can i get a pistol that only drops 6moa out to 400 yards?

.4 BC @ 2750, 225 zero is about 24" low at 425 or ~6 MOA.

Steve
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