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A chameleon takes on the carbon dragon...

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Optics Jedi Knight
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    Posted: August/06/2012 at 04:43
I have finally found a product that can slay the carbon dragon!!
 
It is called Bore-tech Chameleon. It supposedly shows 4 different clours depending on the type of fouling. The two I saw was copper (blue) and carbon (black).
 
It comes as a paste. Work the barrel with a patch and the paste. Let stand, then wipe clean with Shooters Choice.
 
For me it worked and the best I have ever used. Cleans down to the metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 07:21
I saw on a couple of websites that the Chameleon comes in a gel. Bore Tech Inc. has other products "C" as well, I may have to try one of these.

I've been using JB Compound in the past which is a paste as well.

Thanks!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stickbow46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 09:33
How was your accuracy after you cleaned Wouter? Sounds like you may have to reseason the barrel if you clean it down to the bare metal!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 10:06
Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:

How was your accuracy after you cleaned Wouter? Sounds like you may have to reseason the barrel if you clean it down to the bare metal!
 
Yes, that is a bit of an issue. I was fireforming new cases, so I was not sure if it was the cleaning, fireforming or something else.
The first four rounds went 4inches low and four inches left, not a pretty picture. It came back to normal quickly though and shot normally for the rest of the remaining 46 rounds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 10:07
By the way, I have tried the other boretech products, the copper removal works well, but the carbon remover did squat for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 13:05
A lot of rifles shoot better just a tad dirty.  Tactical guys often clean then fire a "spoiler" shot through the barrel and put it up for use.   All I can say is be consistent in what you do and your results will also be consistent.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 18:51
I have essentially gone away from copper removal every time I shoot.  If I get all the copper removed, the first few shots are off next time I shoot.

I do remove non-copper fouling quite religiously though.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2012 at 19:13
Wouter... pictures with the cheek piece???  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stevey Ducks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 15:04
For years I have been using Gun Slick foam with patches and 3 passes through the bore -- 1 to push out the 30 min to 1 hour standing foam that comes out as dark blue/black glop, 2 to lightly oil coat the insides and neutralize the foam, and 3 to dry the insides.
 
Lately I tried ordinary 0W-20 synthetic motor oil and that appeared to remove more carbon as the patches had black streaking.
 
I intend to try the Bore-Tech Chameleon solvent that I hope will speed up the process. My usual routine is to fire 3-5 rounds after cleaning so I can be ready for hunting or just targets. With a 30-1 hour wait for the Gun Slick foam to work time is wasted and sometimes it gets too dark to shoot the last 3-5 rounds.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 17:39
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

A lot of rifles shoot better just a tad dirty.  Tactical guys often clean then fire a "spoiler" shot through the barrel and put it up for use.   All I can say is be consistent in what you do and your results will also be consistent.


I know this isn't tactical but after cleaning, I'll fire off a couple of rounds to confirm accuracy and then leave as is for the hunting season.  Big Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/07/2012 at 18:57
I've only really gone after copper when breaking in a new barrel. But carbon is important to get out. If enough builds up in the chamber, it can cause some problems in feeding/ejecting cartridges. M-Pro7 works pretty well for carbon removal and it's just as well that it doesn't do Jack S. on copper...avoids the need to shoot a fouler. I also wet a .45 cal bore brush and leave that in my .308 chamber overnight to dissolve the carbon in there. The stuff's pretty much non-toxic and doesn't smell.
 
As mentioned, the only time I really go to town on copper is during barrel break-in. Sweets 7.62 or Wipe-Out have worked well. I'll run a patch on a bore spud one-time/one-way down the barrel with Sweets on it and blacken it with carbon. (I don't like running a carbon-laden patch back to the action). That's followed by a dry patch. Then another patch soaked in solvent, which I'll run back and forth 5-6X and let sit for 5 minutes. Usually, one more dry patch is enough to get the copper wiped out (this is after only 1 round, after all). I only use bore spuds and patches.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 8shots Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 02:44
My problem with carbon has been specific to a 6mm Rem AI, which burns enough powder for a moon landing. I have had problems with carbon build-up at the throat. I have tried all the recipes and advise. To date only the Chameleon has done the job with minimum effort and time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jonoMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 15:59
Some powders are just dirtier too. I like Reloder 15 for the accuracy I've had, but the other day at the range I just about gave away the last 50 rounds I have loaded with it.
Reaction time is a factor...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 19:57
Originally posted by jonoMT jonoMT wrote:

Some powders are just dirtier too. I like Reloder 15 for the accuracy I've had, but the other day at the range I just about gave away the last 50 rounds I have loaded with it.
Was that 5.56? I finally broke down and bought a #Rel15 to load 75/80gr.- had been happy w/H4895... haven't loaded it yet.

jono- I first read your post as: "Some people are just dirtier..." so what if I can barely see the front sight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 20:03
I switched to Ramshot TAC in my 223Rem and 308Win primarily because of how little fouling it leaves.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 20:07
Carbon will also form a rough patch in the bore over time, which will need scrubbed out. I think it's dependent on where the hot gases cool, but need to go research that. I think David Tubb wrote about the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alan Robertson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2012 at 20:19
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I switched to Ramshot TAC in my 223Rem and 308Win primarily because of how little fouling it leaves.

ILya
I've also discovered TAC and use it for just about all plinking/hunting 5.56 ammo. It's also inexpensive, besides being clean. For some reason, haven't taken time to dial- in any load with it, just load up a bunch and go blast away.

I've been experimenting w/IMR 4198 and 52/53 gr. for 200 yd rapid fire, as the combo has less recoil to get back on target quicker, but it's like snapping twigs running those long logs thru a powder measure. IMR4198 was the first powder I loaded for .223 back in the 70s, but got away from it for years... back where I started.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2012 at 09:57
This stuff works great for all fouling. from a 22LR to a 50cal.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MZ5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2012 at 10:37
Interesting.  I hadn't read enough about 'Chameleon' to see that it was an abrasive (oh, sorry; _non_-abrasive abrasive Big Grin Wink ).  Sounds like they basically combined the KG/Browning step 2 abrasive with their own Eliminator-style chemical cleaners.  Should be a very effective product!
 
It seems that there must be a LOT of batch variation in many of the newer-tech cleaners, since this is the second report I've read of a BoreTech product not working as well as someone had hoped.  For my part, multiple bottles have worked better than anything else on the market on carbon, possibly excepting the KG/Browning step 1 carbon solvent.  I've used Montana Extreme Copper Creme before on a penny factory, and while it did assault me like WWI chemical warfare, it wasn't very effective on cleaning the bore compared to my Foul Out.  At that time, I was not yet aware of KG or Boretech products, though.
 
The BoreTech C4 and Browning/KG step 1 are the only things I've ever used that CLEANED my M1 Garand's gas piston/op-rod completely clean with little to no scrubbing; just soak and wipe it off.
 
For the 'seasoning' issue, one might want to have a look at Dyna-bore coat.  I've used it on a number of rifles, and it dramatically cuts down on fouling, especially copper, if applied as directed (meaning the bbl has to be borescope-spotlessly clean first).
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