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A chameleon takes on the carbon dragon... |
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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Posted: August/06/2012 at 04:43 |
I have finally found a product that can slay the carbon dragon!!
It is called Bore-tech Chameleon. It supposedly shows 4 different clours depending on the type of fouling. The two I saw was copper (blue) and carbon (black).
It comes as a paste. Work the barrel with a patch and the paste. Let stand, then wipe clean with Shooters Choice.
For me it worked and the best I have ever used. Cleans down to the metal.
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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I saw on a couple of websites that the Chameleon comes in a gel. Bore Tech Inc. has other products "C" as well, I may have to try one of these.
I've been using JB Compound in the past which is a paste as well. Thanks!! |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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stickbow46
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/07/2009 Location: Benton, Pa Status: Offline Points: 4678 |
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How was your accuracy after you cleaned Wouter? Sounds like you may have to reseason the barrel if you clean it down to the bare metal!
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Pearls of Wisdom are Heard not Spoken
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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Yes, that is a bit of an issue. I was fireforming new cases, so I was not sure if it was the cleaning, fireforming or something else.
The first four rounds went 4inches low and four inches left, not a pretty picture. It came back to normal quickly though and shot normally for the rest of the remaining 46 rounds.
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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By the way, I have tried the other boretech products, the copper removal works well, but the carbon remover did squat for me.
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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A lot of rifles shoot better just a tad dirty. Tactical guys often clean then fire a "spoiler" shot through the barrel and put it up for use. All I can say is be consistent in what you do and your results will also be consistent.
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I have essentially gone away from copper removal every time I shoot. If I get all the copper removed, the first few shots are off next time I shoot.
I do remove non-copper fouling quite religiously though. ILya
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Wouter... pictures with the cheek piece???
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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Stevey Ducks
Optics Apprentice Joined: December/03/2011 Status: Offline Points: 266 |
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For years I have been using Gun Slick foam with patches and 3 passes through the bore -- 1 to push out the 30 min to 1 hour standing foam that comes out as dark blue/black glop, 2 to lightly oil coat the insides and neutralize the foam, and 3 to dry the insides.
Lately I tried ordinary 0W-20 synthetic motor oil and that appeared to remove more carbon as the patches had black streaking. I intend to try the Bore-Tech Chameleon solvent that I hope will speed up the process. My usual routine is to fire 3-5 rounds after cleaning so I can be ready for hunting or just targets. With a 30-1 hour wait for the Gun Slick foam to work time is wasted and sometimes it gets too dark to shoot the last 3-5 rounds. |
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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I know this isn't tactical but after cleaning, I'll fire off a couple of rounds to confirm accuracy and then leave as is for the hunting season. |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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I've only really gone after copper when breaking in a new barrel. But carbon is important to get out. If enough builds up in the chamber, it can cause some problems in feeding/ejecting cartridges. M-Pro7 works pretty well for carbon removal and it's just as well that it doesn't do Jack S. on copper...avoids the need to shoot a fouler. I also wet a .45 cal bore brush and leave that in my .308 chamber overnight to dissolve the carbon in there. The stuff's pretty much non-toxic and doesn't smell.
As mentioned, the only time I really go to town on copper is during barrel break-in. Sweets 7.62 or Wipe-Out have worked well. I'll run a patch on a bore spud one-time/one-way down the barrel with Sweets on it and blacken it with carbon. (I don't like running a carbon-laden patch back to the action). That's followed by a dry patch. Then another patch soaked in solvent, which I'll run back and forth 5-6X and let sit for 5 minutes. Usually, one more dry patch is enough to get the copper wiped out (this is after only 1 round, after all). I only use bore spuds and patches.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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My problem with carbon has been specific to a 6mm Rem AI, which burns enough powder for a moon landing. I have had problems with carbon build-up at the throat. I have tried all the recipes and advise. To date only the Chameleon has done the job with minimum effort and time.
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jonoMT
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: November/13/2008 Location: Montana Status: Offline Points: 4853 |
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Some powders are just dirtier too. I like Reloder 15 for the accuracy I've had, but the other day at the range I just about gave away the last 50 rounds I have loaded with it.
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Reaction time is a factor...
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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jono- I first read your post as: "Some people are just dirtier..." so what if I can barely see the front sight? |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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I switched to Ramshot TAC in my 223Rem and 308Win primarily because of how little fouling it leaves.
ILya
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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Carbon will also form a rough patch in the bore over time, which will need scrubbed out. I think it's dependent on where the hot gases cool, but need to go research that. I think David Tubb wrote about the problem.
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Alan Robertson
Optics Master Joined: October/31/2009 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 1763 |
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I've been experimenting w/IMR 4198 and 52/53 gr. for 200 yd rapid fire, as the combo has less recoil to get back on target quicker, but it's like snapping twigs running those long logs thru a powder measure. IMR4198 was the first powder I loaded for .223 back in the 70s, but got away from it for years... back where I started. |
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"Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
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Bigdaddy0381
MODERATOR Georgia peach Joined: February/27/2007 Location: Georgia Status: Offline Points: 13682 |
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This stuff works great for all fouling. from a 22LR to a 50cal.
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P&Z Firearms , Pro gun cleanings and gun repair and wood refinishing.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 |
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MZ5
Optics Apprentice Joined: July/03/2012 Location: Arizona, USA Status: Offline Points: 126 |
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Interesting. I hadn't read enough about 'Chameleon' to see that it was an abrasive (oh, sorry; _non_-abrasive abrasive ). Sounds like they basically combined the KG/Browning step 2 abrasive with their own Eliminator-style chemical cleaners. Should be a very effective product!
It seems that there must be a LOT of batch variation in many of the newer-tech cleaners, since this is the second report I've read of a BoreTech product not working as well as someone had hoped. For my part, multiple bottles have worked better than anything else on the market on carbon, possibly excepting the KG/Browning step 1 carbon solvent. I've used Montana Extreme Copper Creme before on a penny factory, and while it did assault me like WWI chemical warfare, it wasn't very effective on cleaning the bore compared to my Foul Out. At that time, I was not yet aware of KG or Boretech products, though. The BoreTech C4 and Browning/KG step 1 are the only things I've ever used that CLEANED my M1 Garand's gas piston/op-rod completely clean with little to no scrubbing; just soak and wipe it off. For the 'seasoning' issue, one might want to have a look at Dyna-bore coat. I've used it on a number of rifles, and it dramatically cuts down on fouling, especially copper, if applied as directed (meaning the bbl has to be borescope-spotlessly clean first).
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