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what could you compare the glass in the viper to

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Gappa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/16/2012 at 22:53
Originally posted by excess650 excess650 wrote:

With good optics you really don't need a lot of magnification. My current favorite scope for steel on the silhouette range is my 6xSS. Its extremely bright and clear, bright to the point that I keep a sunshade on, and clear enough that I can spot 30cal impacts at 1000 yards in dry dirt. Its not a compact scope, but mine has in excess of 155MOA elevation, which is about 30MOA than the 10xSS that I've since purchased. With fixed magnification there is no need to worry about FFP vs SFP. The 3-9xSS might be a good choice(if you don't mind the size), but I think the 1-6xSS is gonna be the cats a$$ for YOUR purpose on an AR15. I also think you might like a Leupold VX-R on that.

I LIKE more compact scopes and have a variety, and have looked at/through a fair number. I DO have a fairly local shop that carries some better stuff Swaro/Zeiss/Vortex in addition to the more normal Leupold, Nikon, Burris. I don't recall the other upper end brands being there.



I hear ya on the 1-4 or 1-6 scopes.. The new(er) Vortex Razor HD 1-6x24 looks very tempting, if I could find one used I might snag it.. I really don't want to spend more than $1000 on the optic for that rifle.  The big $$ goes to the bolt guns. The last .223 I set up was an H&K SL-81 with a Leupo 3-10x40 and it cut out 1/2" holes @100y..  I like shooting at very small dots and shoot for groups.. I have shot silhouette at much further distance but I like precision shooting more..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 07:35
Here you go... more than you are asking for at less price...
 
SPL7329 Zeiss 1.1-4x24 Varipoint VM/V T* DEMO-B
Click to view MSRP: $1,850.00 Manufacture part#: 5216050000 ...
$899.95
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote excess650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 10:08
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:


Specifically what did you adjust and how did you go about doing it? And what model S&B did you use?


I believe he said it was a 34mm tube, don't recall the magnification, and really didn't care after he told me they were around $4K. I sighted at a target at 300yards, which was the longest at that range, under roof, but overcast day. I set the side parallax to 300 and then adjusted the eyepiece focus while at 6x(thinking of my 6xSS). I zoomed up and down, but didn't spend a lot of time despite being offered the chance to shoot it. I really just wanted a peek through something that Uncle Sam is spending $$ for. My impression was that it wasn't super bright, and not all that sharp. Actually, I thought it rather disapointing.

That entire rig is specialized, and not much of it is of use to me. Its long, heavy, and bulky with a specific purpose in mind. I prefer shorter, and lighter, but still accurate and useful for other purposes, like woods hunting. That particular rifle has a long barrel with muzzle brake that will accept a clamp-on suppressor. It has the McMillan (?) stock with adjustable comb height and LOP, and I'm sure v-block and pillar bedded. The AI triggerguard/magazine could be useful. It was based on a Remington 700 action, but it was obvious that the rear receiver bridge had been contoured differently, and it looked like the ejection port was modified as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 10:26
No offense, but I don't believe for a second the 6x SS is going to be better than a S&B in the glass area.  I have looked through a few and the glass in them is right up there with the best.

The original SS line glass is not as nice as the HD line, and to me a S&B appears to have slightly better glass than the HD line.  To me S&B optics seems right up there with my Z6.  I don't think you spent enough time setting the scope up to you.  Or this is just another case of someone wanting their cheaper scope to be better than a high end scope.  I have been their and done that, that is just how everyone wants to see it.  Makes us feel good about our purchases.       
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote excess650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 10:27
Originally posted by Gappa Gappa wrote:


I hear ya on the 1-4 or 1-6 scopes.. The new(er) Vortex Razor HD 1-6x24 looks very tempting, if I could find one used I might snag it.. I really don't want to spend more than $1000 on the optic for that rifle.  The big $$ goes to the bolt guns. The last .223 I set up was an H&K SL-81 with a Leupo 3-10x40 and it cut out 1/2" holes @100y..  I like shooting at very small dots and shoot for groups.. I have shot silhouette at much further distance but I like precision shooting more..


I don't think the AR15/223 package a long range proposition, but have shot one to 500m and it did fine. My preference is for a bigger hammer to touch things way out there.

Shooting groups is fine while developing loads, but after that its like watching paint dry. Doping wind, mirage, and light changes over varying distances is more interesting to me. I have access to a range with silhouettes to 500, and additional rails at 850-1000 yards for the benchrest varmint game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote excess650 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 10:49
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

No offense, but I don't believe for a second the 6x SS is going to be better than a S&B in the glass area.  I have looked through a few and the glass in them is right up there with the best.

The original SS line glass is not as nice as the HD line, and to me a S&B appears to have slightly better glass than the HD line.  To me S&B optics seems right up there with my Z6.  I don't think you spent enough time setting the scope up to you.  Or this is just another case of someone wanting their cheaper scope to be better than a high end scope.  I have been their and done that, that is just how everyone wants to see it.  Makes us feel good about our purchases.       



No scope envy here. It wasn't my equipment, so didn't want to adjust any more than I did. This may well be the case of oil on the lenses or a scope that had been dropped, but it definitely wasn't what you folks are saying a S&B should be. No, I didn't make any attempt to clean his lenses, and we were under roof, so no light from the front or rear causing reflections from my glasses.

I try to be objective and welcome the opportunity to check out whatever new optics I see at the range. I've been enthused by some and turned off by others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 11:13
I've owned a Schmidt and Bender, I've used a few and looked through more than that... while I disagree with any assessment that would place S&B glass above the Zeiss Diavari FL, it is in the "top 5" and competes well with anything there.  It is "great glass" and every Schmidt and Bender I've used has been a superior quality scope... not my favorite, but still superior. 
If someone gave me one, I would keep it...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 14:53
Originally posted by excess650 excess650 wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:


Specifically what did you adjust and how did you go about doing it? And what model S&B did you use?


 I sighted at a target at 300yards, which was the longest at that range, under roof, but overcast day. I set the side parallax to 300 and then adjusted the eyepiece focus while at 6x(thinking of my 6xSS). I zoomed up and down,



Not actually being there watching you set it up it is hard to say for sure, but it does not sound like it was set up correctly. The eyepiece or diopter setting is to focus the reticle not the focus of the image and is done with the parallax set to infinity. And once it is set for your eyes it is not changed. And just because a target is at a known distance of 300yds usually does not mean that the correct setting of the parallax adjustment is the 300yd  mark on the knob. Absolutely none of my scopes line up with the true distance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 15:26
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by excess650 excess650 wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:


Specifically what did you adjust and how did you go about doing it? And what model S&B did you use?


 I sighted at a target at 300yards, which was the longest at that range, under roof, but overcast day. I set the side parallax to 300 and then adjusted the eyepiece focus while at 6x(thinking of my 6xSS). I zoomed up and down,



Not actually being there watching you set it up it is hard to say for sure, but it does not sound like it was set up correctly. The eyepiece or diopter setting is to focus the reticle not the focus of the image and is done with the parallax set to infinity. And once it is set for your eyes it is not changed. And just because a target is at a known distance of 300yds usually does not mean that the correct setting of the parallax adjustment is the 300yd  mark on the knob. Absolutely none of my scopes line up with the true distance.
My Hensoldt parallax adjustment "lines up" with range sometimes (SELDOM), but I suspect luck... For one thing, even with LRF, you are estimating range... scope might "line up" exactly correctly (though I doubt it) and you could still think it was wrong because your SWAG is off... I sometimes use the numbers to get close and then fine tune, mostly just adjust until it is "right"...  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 15:32
I will say this.. Premier BLOWS S&B away in the glass dept.. There is no competition, but as far as the mechanics go I think s7b is a touch better.. I really wish I could have a chance to scope out the March 5-50x56 Tactical scope.. I talked with Mr Kelbly and he said they run from $2800 to $3300 depending on illumination and reticle choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 15:41
Gappa, how the heck do you know that the S&B has good mechanics or the Premier for that matter?  You never even mounted it on your gun, again you cannot tell these things without mounting them on a gun. 

You are driving everyone crazy with all your constant claims of knowledge about optics and shooting.  When if fact we don't believe a word you say about anything.  You have bought and sent back 4 or 5 scopes without even using them and suddenly you are a master of all things rifle scopes.  Give it up already.

And of course you will just ignore this post like you do all others where people ask you questions and make comments that you know you cannot answer, because you have never even used these scopes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 15:42
from all you've spent lately thats nothing get two and send me one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 15:44


Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SVT_Tactical Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 15:44
ExcellentSuperTool
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 15:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 18:00
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Gappa, how the heck do you know that the S&B has good mechanics or the Premier for that matter?  You never even mounted it on your gun, again you cannot tell these things without mounting them on a gun. 

You are driving everyone crazy with all your constant claims of knowledge about optics and shooting.  When if fact we don't believe a word you say about anything.  You have bought and sent back 4 or 5 scopes without even using them and suddenly you are a master of all things rifle scopes.  Give it up already.

And of course you will just ignore this post like you do all others where people ask you questions and make comments that you know you cannot answer, because you have never even used these scopes. 


You don't need to put a scope on a rifle to fiddle with the knobs...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 18:01
Where are you at in SC, Gappa? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 18:01
You don't need to drive a car to tell if it is well built!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 18:02
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Where are you at in SC, Gappa? 


Hilton Head Island
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gappa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/17/2012 at 18:03
??? why you wanna go shootin?
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