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POSP M6D PRO range report

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koshkin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 01:25
Why should Romak-3 be avoided?

It is not an SVD.  It is a somewhat accurized longer-barrel version of AKM.  Same goes for a Yugoslavian M76.  It also retains AK gas system.  Both are pretty decent rifles, the best that I can tell and work well with proper ammo (a batch of russian 7N1 sniper ammo hit the market a little while ago).

Romanians developed Romak 3 for the same purpose as Russians developed the SVD, to the best of my knowledge.

As far as "true sniper rifle" goes, neither Romak-3 no SVD are really true sniper rifles in the same way as the sniper rifles of western armies are. SVD intended function is really a whole lot close to a Designated Marksman Rifle than anything else.

The only two rifles that are actually Dragunov (short stroke gas system) that I can think of off the top of my head are the Russian and the Chinese versions.  The rest of Dragunov look-alikes around the world are functionally AKMs with longer and better barrels.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 01:38

Alot of sellers mislead the public by calling the Romak-3 a  SVD or Sniper rifle.

Koshkin with 7N1 the romak can only group 2.25 MOA at 100yds and 2MOA with S&B

7.62x54R match the SVD can group less than 1MOA , yes the Russian and the chinese

short stroke gas system are the most accurate. I heard of a west german SVD

that I would love to try and I would also love to try the new SVDS,do you have any

info on the performance of these rifles koshkin. I am not interested in the new SVU.

Here is my list of true SVD models best to worst I have shot:

!.NDM-86

2.Russian SVD

3.type-79

3.Tigr

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 02:41

I've never heard of a West German Dragunov, and I'd be shocked if one existed.  Maybe you meant East German?  I've never seen one of those either, but it would be a more likely variant.

 

As for vendors misrepresenting PSL rifles, that's dishonest on their part.  Nevertheless, I was under an impression that PSL and M76 are slightly less accurate than true SVDs in general, but not by a huge margin.  SVD with the right ammo is typically a 1MOA rifle until the barrel heats up.  PSLs with the right ammo 1.5MOA or so.

 

Like with any Eastern block weapond quality varies considerably from rifle to rifle.

 

SVDS is rumored to have similar accuracy to regular SVDs.  It's barrel is a little thicker and shorter, so I would think it should be slightly more accurate in theory, but I doubt anyone did serious load development for it.

 

ILya

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 03:54

The Two Romak-3's I have shot were not very accurate. Koshkin you were right it is East German

and yes another variant it is the East German SVD-89, oh well here is one less rifle of my want list.

I want a SVDS.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 04:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 04:47

                        Here is a interview with a former Soviet Sniper. The rifle he used is a russian SVD

with a 4x PSO-1.The NDM-86 .308 is a more acurrate rifle it was designed to outperform the SVD

as is the new SVDS,I would extend his kill zone from 600-800 to 800-1000M with either one of

these rifles and a slighty better optic.


 

"While Hidden, I See and Destroy" -Soviet Sniper Motto

The following is an excerpt of an interview between American gun writer David Fortier and an ex-Soviet sniper.

"I had a chance to interview a former member of the Soviet Army who served in Afghanistan for 16 months in 1986-1987. He currently resides in the U.S. and was a very down-to-earth and honest guy. I will be frank, I grew up thinking that one day we'd be fighting these Godless commies in Europe, and that the only good commie was a dead commie. You know the drill. Then I had a chance to sit down and drink vodka with a bunch of Soviet Naval Infantrymen. To my surprise they were down to earth, funny, and a lot like me. It was from that first meeting that I started to research and write on Soviet/Russian firearms.

My new friend here was drafted into the service when he was 19. He had a background in martial arts, Judo and Sambo, and was sent to Airborne School. He made 24(!!!!) jumps during his training. During rifle training his marksmanship abilities were noted and he was asked if he would like to try shooting the SVD Dragunov sniper rifle. He said sure, and when he saw it for the first time he was blown away by how it looked. (I admit....it is the sexiest looking rifle I have ever seen too). He trained with it only out to 400 meters, and only on static targets. Basically he was given all the ballistic tables to learn, some shooting time, and then was expected to pick everything up on his own at his unit. Nice eh? Most of the training was spent learning how to jump....and they never jumped once while in Afghanstan! He was selected out of Airborne school for a Special Forces-type unit that did recon work and ambushes.

When he got to his unit in Afghanistan he said he was lucky because he was issued a rifle that had never been in the field before and still had its cheek piece and rubber eyecup. Usually these items were lost or stolen (he said people would steal the cheekpiece as it would fit an AKS-74 so he had to sleep with it) with cheek pieces being replaced with tourniquets wrapped in electrical tape.

The rifle was nicknamed the "oar" by the troops due to its length and its looks. There was one sniper per platoon and he functioned in what we would refer to as a designated marksman or sharpshooter. During ambushes he stayed with the rear support element (PKM machinegun) and fired in support.

OK, the nitty gritty: How far did he and could he engage? He engaged past 1000 meters in support, firing at heavy weapons, trucks, and personnel. At 600-800 meters (660-880 yards) he felt that he could reliably hit a man with one shot with the SVD. The weapon? He liked it very much, and felt that it was quite accurate and effective. During training (and I have heard this exact same thing from another source) they were told that if you fired and missed your target, human nature would often cause that person to freeze for a couple seconds, due to the proximity of the shot, during this time a semi-automatic rifle allowed you to make your correction and get off a follow-up shot. He liked the rifle, and owns one here in the US now. He just wished that more than one were issued to his platoon. (Later in the war up to 6 were issued per platoon.) On the optics he felt the PSO-1 was quite servicable and thought the reticle extremely effective. This I gotta agree on, I think the PSO-1 has one of the best sniper reticles out there. It ranges easily with the choke rangefinder, provides ranging using the Mil system if you desire, has 10 Mil marks on either side for windage or lead corrections and is illuminated. I was surprised that he did not feel hindered by it being only 4x and he actually liked the extremely large FOV.


Ammunition? He thought the 7.62x54R was quite effective. He shot both the 7N1 sniper load and the 148 grain LPS ball. The 7N1 is a 152 grain FMJBT designed specifically for use in the SVD. It has a velocity of 830 mps or about 2723 fps and is designed specifically to increase leathality. It has an airpocket in the nose with a steel "knocker" behind that and finally a lead plug in the base. Upon hitting a target the steel "knocker" moves forward into the airspace and destabalizes the projectile. I sent some of this ammo off to a friend who owns an ammunition company and he was quite impressed after disecting one."

After 6 months he transfered to different duty and carried an AKS-74. He really liked the AKS-74 and its round and said it was effective at 400 meters. Thought the 5.45x39 did everything it needed too, was accurate, light, and did the deed well.

Interestingly he also carried, of all things, a Stetchkin machine pistol, when he was lugging the SVD. Carried it in its stock/holster in a outside pocket of his pack. When they were clearing houses he'd sling the SVD because of its length and pull out the Stetchkin and mount its stock. Though he never had to shoot anyone with it, he thought it was accurate out to 200 meters and extremely controllable on fullauto. He had no love for the AKSU-74 (Krinkov) though. Said they were widely issued to truck drivers and tank crews and the like, but were binned whenever they got the chance to get a regular AKS-74. I was surprised by this, but he didnt like it."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 05:37

A Finnish sniper w/extensive experience w/both the Romak-3 (FPK, PSL, etc) and 7.62x54 SVD claims accuracy to be equal when using the same ammo. With my Romak-3 using Russian '188' surplus ammo & the std 4x scope I could consitently hit the 18" gong at 500m. When using match ammo the Chinese NDM-86 in .308 is far more accurate than a semi-auto rifle w/chromed bore should be. I'm not a trained shooter but using Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" budget 168gr match ammo my personal best 4-shot group ctc at 100yds is .44", my personal best 3-shot ctc at 100yds is .24" and my personal best 3-shot ctc at 500m is 4.5" using the POSP 8x42D. Even though it's beyond the max optimal range for 168gr match on a good day I can hit the 36" gong at 900m 4 times out of 5 in 8 seconds and the 24" gong at 750m 4 times out of 5 in 8 seconds using the 1P21 3-9x variable. My teenage son was able to hit the 750m gong the first day he tried the NDM-86 and so fell in love with it I was obligated to give him one of mine (it was his birthday, Christmas & graduation gift for the next 5 years!...)

While I like the current SVD bipod anyone have more info or pics of this new SVD bipod mentioned in this thread? Thx!...

Tomac

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 11:08

Hello Tomac thanks for this post I was about to post yesturday that the NDM-86 is a

sub 1/2 MOA rifle but I figured no one will believe me why bother. I will post a picture

of the new bi-pod later but it is a weaver type bi-pod you will need a rail on your rifle.

There is a new Handguard with build in rail for this bipod and other accesories, they

are all genuine russian military parts, I will post info later.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 11:16
Originally posted by SVD666 SVD666 wrote:

Hello Tomac thanks for this post I was about to post yesturday that the NDM-86 is a

sub 1/2 MOA rifle but I figured no one will believe me why bother. I will post a picture

of the new bi-pod later but it is a weaver type bi-pod you will need a rail on your rifle.

There is a new Handguard with build in rail for this bipod and other accesories, they

are all genuine russian military parts, I will post info later.

 

You're welcome (group size pics available if anyone wants to see them), I look forward to your post about the new bipod!

Tomac

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 12:47

Here is the new romak-3 upgrade.

Here is the real deal.

Imagine the new upgrades on the SVDS.

Tomac you know how they say there is only about 1000 NDM-86 in the US.

I heard a report from from a trusted source that there is more like 800, congratulations

on your great choice of this fine rifle. I bought mine shortly after I turned 18 and it

is as accurate as my best bolt gun. I wish I would of bought two like you did but I was very

young and did not have the available funds.Luckily a crate of mags made it in, I have four

but if you need more PM me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tomac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 14:49

I would dearly love an SVDS and had seriously considered having one of my NDM's customized as such (I have 3 left after giving one to my son, managed to pick up 5 mags for each) but couldn't bring myself to have the receiver modified. That SVD handguard/rail combo looks sweet, who's selling it? (And btw, who's selling that bipod?)

Tomac

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/28/2006 at 16:48

I would dearly love an SVDS and had seriously considered having one of my NDM's customized as such (I have 3 left after giving one to my son, managed to pick up 5 mags for each) but couldn't bring myself to have the receiver modified.

 

 

There is alot of work involved in that project, I would not do it.

Wow  you bought four. I sent you a PM.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2006 at 15:32

Update: There is now a variant of the M6D pro without the long range knobs

and without the 1/2 MOA movement it is simply labeled 8D pro without the M6.

I do not recommend this scope for precision work.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2006 at 18:46

Here is the current isuue sv-98 with PKS-o7 in 7.62x54R.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2006 at 18:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2006 at 19:00
It's a nice rifle in need of a better scope.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/29/2006 at 20:54

Yes I agree Koshkin, it is only a 7X scope. Here is the Current issue of thr Russian .50 cal sniping rifle the KVSK 12.7x108mm.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ots03 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2006 at 16:07

Well, russian scopes looks good on russian style guns..........But MOST OF THEM (almost all !!) are off centered and DONT HAVE CENTERED RETICLE ......THey are big mistakes for a modern scope !!

Pk-07 is good and extremely rugged but cant be compared with a occidental sniper scope

The only russian modern sniper scope is ZENITH 1P59-69 ...and its export is forbiden by law

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trinidad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/30/2006 at 17:38

Hello ots03

 

Yes I agree like with alot of the best forieghn Military parts they are forbiden for export here in the US,

these russian scopes are more like a hobby, for realy good modern scopes I feel there is nothing better

that is legal than the S&B PM II line. Thank you for the post ots03.

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