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Conquest vs. Swarovski, Kahles |
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tbone1
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/31/2004 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Posted: July/09/2004 at 10:21 |
I am looking to purchase a scope and have narrowed it down to a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44, Swarovski A line 3.5-10x42, and Kahles AH 3-9x42. I am willing to spend the extra money for the Kahles or the Swarovski but only if they are really worth it. I have been having trouble making up my mind. Yesterday, I stopped in a store that had the Zeiss and Swarovski (didn't have Kahles) and I was able to take the scopes outside for about 15 minutes or so. It was just before 6:00 pm so I still had decent light. I tried to see which one was better and I really couldn't tell a difference. At the low powers the Zeiss seemed to be a hair bit clearer but the little difference went away as I turned the power up. I can easily tell a difference optically when comparing binoculars of similar quality, I guess maybe I have more experience with them and know what to look for, but have trouble with riflescopes. Has anyone else compared them?
The Zeiss has been very impressive every time that I have compared it. Chris, I noticed you have a Swarovski A-line. Is it noticable better than the Zeiss and is it worth the extra money. I noticed some on the samplelist that have the bullet drop recticle for $719.00. Is that the TDS. |
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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you answered your own question. to your eyes, there was no difference, in fact you said you liked the zeiss a little better.
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tbone1
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/31/2004 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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I guess I like to get multiple opinions, especially from people who own or have used a particular scope. To me a few in the store comparisons is not always a fair look at something. I try to give every scope a chance. For example, a year or two ago I compared binos in the store and decided on a particular pair because they appeared to have good optics. I then ordered them from SWFA but never really was satisfied with them. In the field, the optics didn't perform as well as I had hoped. The more opinions the better. Thanks Sako75 for the reply.
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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i had a conquest it was awesome. never looked thru a swaro av the conquest has an etched reticle these are not only more durable than wire, they also dont change color when the light reflects off it. Etched reticles cost more. i asked leupold why the new vx-3's didnt have them and they said probably cost. to me the swaro should have it considering the cost. optically, it is close, in fact i called swfa with this same question once and i dont know who i spoke with but his answer was conquest. he said he has never had a conquest come back but couldnt say htat about the swaro |
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tbone1
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/31/2004 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Thanks Sako75 for the reply. The more I hear about the conquest, the more I like it.
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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The Swarovski is brighter in low light hunting situations. The Conquest does not use the top of the line AOS glass or T* coatings like the VMV. The Conquest is between a VX-III and a Swarovski 1". I like the 4-12x50 TDS because to me that power range and objective size are perfect for the type of hunting I do and I love having the bullet drop feature built into the reticle. |
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ercjr2001
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/23/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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The Conquest is every bit the quality that the Saworvski AH and Kahles. I stopped at the gun shop about two weeks ago and compared them. With all but 1/4 of the lights in the store turned off at closing time. We had only the light in the store room and the and at the register on. I looked thru each scope at a full body deer mount in the far corner of the store with each riflescope. Each time the conquest was the winner clarity, resolution and overall brightness. I asked my brother in law who is not an avid hunter and is not exposed to all the product hype out there what he thought when comparing these scopes. Right of he said this one is brighter and the deer is better defined. The hair color was more apparent to him with the Ziess. Another man who was purchasing a shotgun did the same comparison with us and he said he picked the Ziess conquest. We all agreed that the difference was small but the same. Then for a better test we stepped outside and compared them again with a road sign 300 yards away and none of us could tell the difference. We checked all the riflescopes at 5 power and we checked to make sure the eyepiece was adjusted properly. The salesman closing the store said his friends did the same comparison of scopes last year in west Texas and they all preffered the Conquest. He said the only time the T* helps is when it is dark and only the moonlight is out. The SOS glass is the same glass as the conquest just cut different because of the tube dimensions and spacing in the rilfe scope. Conquest uses the same glass and coatings as the Z/MZ series. Saworvski and Kahles both get their glass from schott glass works in germany ( same place ziess gets glass ). For the money and performance the Ziess Conquest is hard to beat. Scopes Tested: Zeiss conquest 3.5 - 10 X 44 Kahles 3 -9 X 42 Saworvski 3 - 10 X 42 Nikon 3 - 9 X 40 which ranked last in our opinions.
Hope this helps. |
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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chris-
you gotta admit that swarovski should have added etched reticle instead of wire to the av line scopes! i couldnt believe for those price they were using wire! |
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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schott glass is actually made in the USA, pennsylvania I think. there might be more than 1 schoo glass factory where zeiss and swaro get glass, for some weird reason i am thinking zeiss owns it! Yes swarovski confirmed this when i called htem and asked. they said the ybuy the hioghest grade. AS for the conquest it does not use the same quality glass or coatings as the v series. the zm/z series is long gone! I compared swarovski, S&B and a conquest in the dark and although the more expensive 2 were better, it was had me wondering why they cost so much more. the answer to that was not only in the glass but construction, 1st focal plane reticle and 30mm tube. FYI S&B is the only company in control of their own glass. they bought an optics company in hungary some years ago and have been in charge of their own glass since then. |
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ranburr
Optics Master Joined: May/16/2004 Status: Offline Points: 1082 |
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I don't know anything about Pennsylvania (probably U.S. business offices), but the Schott glass works is owned by Zeiss and located in Germany. Zeiss is also very much in charge of their own glass since they own the Schott works. I don't know of a Hungarian glass company and I used to spend a good bit of time in Hungary (Zwack Unicom). Doesn't mean that one does not exist, but I have never heard of it. I have toured the German and Czech glass factories and I believe Meopta owns their own glass works. Quite frankly I would not think that it would be worthwhile for a company the size of S&B to buy a glass company. It is not like there is a world shortage.
ranburr Edited by ranburr |
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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Another 100 people work in the subsidiary of Schmidt & Bender Hungaria Optikai Kft. In Budapest, which has existed since 1992. This company developed from the former state- owned
Schmidt & Bender starts with a more expensive camera quality glass, which they then grind and polish to the industries highest standards at their lens facility in Hungary.
download intro catalog page 11 SCHOTT GLASS MADE IN USA FACTORY not all schott glass made their but some is
so there it is some, not all, schott glass is made in the USA and yes S&B produces, grinds, and polishes their own glass in hungary
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ercjr2001
Optics GrassHopper Joined: May/23/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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Z/ZM Scopes and conquest 3 -12 X 56 30mm are the exact same design. Conquest are now assembled in the US and the German Z/ZM is discontinued and replaced by the V/VM series. Conquest 1 inch scopes ( 3.5 - 10 & 4.5,6.5 - 50 AO ) are the Technology used in V/VM series in 1 inch tubes. With the exception of the 3 - 9 X 40 Conquest.
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ranburr
Optics Master Joined: May/16/2004 Status: Offline Points: 1082 |
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Interesting. I am still not sure why S&B would want a Hungarian glass company. Hungarian industry is not exactly known for high quality work. I am sure they probably got the factory at a bargain price and the Hungarian govt. probably helped out with the cost. But, it would still be cheaper to just buy glass from a quality provider. I guess they have their reasons. Never heard of the Pennsylvania Schott facility before today. Don't get me wrong, I think S&B makes great products and are in the top 3-5 scope makers. I do think that their products are overpriced and I think that they are overkill size wise for most hunting rifles. Where the tactical arena is concerned they are better suited and one of the best.
ranburr Edited by ranburr |
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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"We checked all the riflescopes at 5 power" "Scopes Tested: Zeiss conquest 3.5 - 10 X 44 Kahles 3 -9 X 42 Saworvski 3 - 10 X 42" If you are comparing scopes for brightness you must compare them while they are producing the same size exit pupil. "He said the only time the T* helps is when it is dark and only the moonlight is out." "The SOS glass is the same glass as the conquest just cut different because of the tube dimensions and spacing in the rifle scope. Conquest uses the same glass and coatings as the Z/MZ series." This contradicts itself. You claim the Conquest used the same glass as the VMV, then claim the Conquest uses the same glass and coatings as the ZMZ. Read this post about Schott Glass Werks. Schott makes glass for many products other than scopes and binoculars. The Here is a post by mwyates where he compared the Conquest to a Swarovski in Bass Pro Shops.
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tbone1
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/31/2004 Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Thanks to everyone who has replied, I have gotten some great information. I have a Zeiss VM/V. I don't expect the Conquest to be as good but, I do want the best scope in that price range. If I decide on the Conquest, I will compare it to my VM/V and let ya'll know what I think.
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Rusty
Optics Apprentice Joined: April/12/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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One additional thought on comparisons that sometimes will show up: sometimes the factory QA/QC lets improperly constructed optics out (this rarely happens, but it does happen). I have listened to some "birders" rant (negatively) about their top quality binoculars. Eventually they had the factory repair the item which was improperly assembled (it was either out of collimation, or an internal lens was reversed?).
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Chris Farris
TEAM SWFA - Admin swfa.com Joined: October/01/2003 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 8024 |
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"Conquest 1 inch scopes ( 3.5 - 10 & 4.5,6.5 - 50 AO ) are the Technology used in V/VM series in 1 inch tubes. With the exception of the 3 - 9 X 40 Conquest."
This is wrong information and I just want people that are reading this post to know so that it does not get repeated as the truth. |
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ranburr
Optics Master Joined: May/16/2004 Status: Offline Points: 1082 |
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I have to give one to Sako 75. I just could not imagine that Schott had a factory here that I had never heard of. Well, I called them today and it does exist. They only sell raw glass and some of their customers are optics companies. If you want anything beyond a sheet of raw glass you have to either deal with Schott in Germany or Zeiss in Germany depending on how refined a product you want. Optics companies using the U.S. glass need the ability to cut, grind and coat the glass once they receive it (it is not a deal where you drop the lenses into a scope tube). I say thank you to Sako 75 for teaching me something new.
ranburr |
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SAKO75
Optics Apprentice Joined: February/29/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 246 |
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ranburr
i dont know everything, i come here to learn. i have learned from reading your posts as well thank you |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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Schott facility in Pensylvania was created so that they could qualify their product as "domestic" they bring the equipment and raw product form abroad and melt the glass in Pensyllvania. They have a lot of US based companies for whom it is easier to deal with a domestic product (especially defense oriented ones).
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