OpticsTalk by SWFA, Inc. Homepage SWFA     SampleList.com
Forum Home Forum Home > Scopes > Rifle Scopes
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - New To Distance Shooting
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Visit the SWFA.com site to check out our current specials.

New To Distance Shooting

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
NW425 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: May/16/2015
Location: NH
Status: Offline
Points: 56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NW425 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2015 at 21:26
Oh, by the way all, I kind of made an impulse purchase on the rifle today!


I wound up taking home a mossberg patriot!

I found an amazing deal on it at the local gun store ($264.99), which just so happens to be $0.01 below dealer cost. It's a newer rifle, but I have heard good things about it, and if not, I can easily sell it for a minimal loss.


With the new rifle in mind, what rings should I be getting? I may begin to start hunting so I am leaning toward the 4-14x44 Primary Arms scope. The mil-dots are on the FFP, there's a side parallax adjustment, AND I can get it at manufactorer's cost (plus S+H).



What bases/rings should I use for the PA 4-14x44 on the Mossberg Patriot?
Back to Top
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2015 at 21:43
Which model and caliber did you get?

 And I will agree with everybody else that has already posted in this thread, and recommend against low price, high optioned Chinese junk scopes...
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Back to Top
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 23679
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2015 at 22:13
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I agree with ILya on most points… however, I don't think there is such a thing as "over scoping".  I've never had a problem with "too much magnification".  That is why scopes are VARIABLE.  Dialing UP in magnification has never been a problem for me and adjusting for conditions never has been a problem, either.  It is a personal thing...

Dan, for how long have you been doing precision shooting?

ILya
I started shooting with the Army 1000 Meter Team in 1972.
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
Back to Top
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2015 at 22:16
So maybe you might be a bit more used to lining up natural point of aim, and dealing with the heart beat vibrations of a high mag scope? Especially over a new shooter?
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Back to Top
NW425 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: May/16/2015
Location: NH
Status: Offline
Points: 56
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NW425 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2015 at 22:36
BillyBurl2, the commentator above is not the OP on this thread :)

I am used to pistol shooting a lot more than rifle. 

And I just got the standard model in .308 win



Still leaning toward the PA scope. I know the "Chinese" import and "high magnification" won't be ideal, but I really do not want a fixed power :/


Back to Top
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/18/2015 at 22:43
Good luck too you then, sir. My money is way to important to risk on maybes...
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Back to Top
Brightsparc View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: April/17/2015
Location: Milwaukee
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brightsparc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 08:28
I too am new to distance shooting having been a pistol person my whole adult life. I now shoot 600 yards at least once a week.

The SWFA SS 10x is best value. I have a 12x, but it is for 600 to 1000 yards. It is the highest power optic I own.

A couple observation I have made:

1x power per 100 yards. More is only better to a point. I was shooting a SS 1-6x at 600 yards yesterday. Consistently banging 2/3rd IDPA steel. Most people I shoot with will use 14x maximum at 600 yards. 10x out to 600 yards is more than enough and 6x will work all day.

Variable is always lowest power or highest, seldom in the middle. Most of my variables stay on highest setting - unless 1x or except for the next observation.

Lower cost not used at highest X. I have a couple less expensive variables - Nikon, PA and Burris. 2-7, I set to 6 and 2-8, I set to 7 or 6, etc. At the highest setting the sight picture and eye relief are not ideal (at least for me). FFP and $$$ optics I do not have the same issue. But, at $300 ....

Turrets. When you are with others, being able to dial in - and out - 3 tenth of a mil or favor 7 clicks in one direction or another quickly is very convenient. Beyond 300 yards, wind becomes ever more important and Kentucky windage harder to swag (especially without a proper reticle). Don't need to use, but if you find you need them later....

I spent money learning and have just recently tossed a couple cheap tubes.

Enjoy the journey!
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 13:30
Originally posted by NW425 NW425 wrote:

Oh, by the way all, I kind of made an impulse purchase on the rifle today!


I wound up taking home a mossberg patriot!

I found an amazing deal on it at the local gun store ($264.99), which just so happens to be $0.01 below dealer cost. It's a newer rifle, but I have heard good things about it, and if not, I can easily sell it for a minimal loss.


With the new rifle in mind, what rings should I be getting? I may begin to start hunting so I am leaning toward the 4-14x44 Primary Arms scope. The mil-dots are on the FFP, there's a side parallax adjustment, AND I can get it at manufactorer's cost (plus S+H).



What bases/rings should I use for the PA 4-14x44 on the Mossberg Patriot?

Since you saved money on the rifle, I suggest you spend a little more money on the scope.  

Primary Arms scope you are looking at is a well-featured paperweight.

If you do plan to hunt, a variable is a good idea and the best one for your situation would be SWFA SS 3-9x42.  It will do everything you need for both hunting and precision shooting.

Buy once, cry once.

ILya


Back to Top
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20844
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 14:22
SS 3-9x is a GREAT choice. Not sure the Mil Dot reticle is ideal for big game, (at least where I am), but it sure covers a lot of ground. 

If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
Back to Top
Brightsparc View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: April/17/2015
Location: Milwaukee
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brightsparc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 15:07
I also have the SS 3-9x, but it was more than $300.

Another lesson I learned the hard way. Spend more on glass than delivery system. When I finally am happy with optics, I have always spent more on the optic - definitely optic + mount - than I spent on the rifle. This does not include the cheap optics that went into a junk box.

$265 on rifle, at least $300 on optics would make sense. No regrets on the SS 3-9x I have with Voretex rings sitting on a $500 MVP .308.

At 100 yards, not so important. The farther away, the more important good optics become. Might just be 'cause I am getting old.....
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 15:34
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I agree with ILya on most points… however, I don't think there is such a thing as "over scoping".  I've never had a problem with "too much magnification".  That is why scopes are VARIABLE.  Dialing UP in magnification has never been a problem for me and adjusting for conditions never has been a problem, either.  It is a personal thing...

Dan, for how long have you been doing precision shooting?

ILya
I started shooting with the Army 1000 Meter Team in 1972.

I think I can reasonably infer that appropriate gear for your precision shooting needs is somewhat different than that for someone new to precision shooting.

ILya
Back to Top
koshkin View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 15:39
Originally posted by Brightsparc Brightsparc wrote:

I also have the SS 3-9x, but it was more than $300.

Another lesson I learned the hard way. Spend more on glass than delivery system. When I finally am happy with optics, I have always spent more on the optic - definitely optic + mount - than I spent on the rifle. This does not include the cheap optics that went into a junk box.

$265 on rifle, at least $300 on optics would make sense. No regrets on the SS 3-9x I have with Voretex rings sitting on a $500 MVP .308.

At 100 yards, not so important. The farther away, the more important good optics become. Might just be 'cause I am getting old.....

There is no hard and fast rule on how much to spend on an optic and on the rifle.  Both should be selected to fit you application requirements.

My $500 280Rem has a $1400 scope on it.

I also have a $5500 rifle that for quite some time had a $800 on it.  I have since put a much fancier scope on that rifle, but honestly my shooting results for the most part did not get a whole lot better since all that rifle does these days is go to the range with me.  However, it makes it out to the desert with me every once in a while and when the conditions get complicated, the difference is there.  

Now, back to the original question.  The OP wants a scope that can bridge hunting and precision shooting.

That means:
-Reliable mechanics
-Decent glass
-Reasonable low light reticle visibility
-FFP reticle

That's the 3-9x42 SS.

ILya


Back to Top
jmjoker View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: May/19/2015
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmjoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 17:25
The SWFA scopes are far superior to the Millet and the other one.  It tracks much more accurately and its far more durable plus has many other superior features.  Tracking is this:  If you dial your SWFA to 10 mils up, it will be exactly at 10 mils up.  If you dial your Millet to 10 mils up, its probably really at 10.2 mils up or 9.8 mils up.

I'd get either the 6x42mm or the 10x42mm in patented mil-quad reticle depending on what you want to do with your rifle.

A .308 can shoot 1000-1100 yards, so if you want to shoot that far then get the 10x42mm.  

If you want to hunt with it, get the 6x42mm...  Most game is closer than 300 yards and lower mag scopes have more field of view.  You can find the game faster in your scope.

If you want to do both, I'd go with the 6x42mm; 6 mag can touch 1000 yards, and its more than enough for 500 yards.  10mag can go to 1 mile or 1760 yards no problem, but its hard to quickly find game at 200 yards in the scope.

SWFA is way better, you will regret getting the Millet or primary arms

Good luck

Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 17:28
Originally posted by jmjoker jmjoker wrote:

  If you dial your Millet to 10 mils up, its probably really at 10.2 mils up or 9.8 mils up.


Or it might even be 10.2 mils down.  Wink  Millets blow
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20844
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 17:31
Welcome Joker.
If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
Back to Top
jmjoker View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: May/19/2015
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmjoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 17:41
Yeah, and get better rings and a one piece TPS 20 MOA scope base-  all steel not aluminum.  I suggest TPS rings though the SWFA rings are also ok.  If you get crappy rings/base, your scope will gradually move when the rifle recoils, and your zero and your accuracy will become junk.

Get the rings as low as possible without touching your barrel.  I'd go extra low TPS or low SWFA .820" high...don't attach them when you get them.  First put them on your base (without attaching them) and see if your scope clears.  If it don't clear, you can return the rings and get the next higher rings.  If you've attached them, they won't accept the return.

MILs or MOA don't matter... if you use JBM ballistics excellent and free online ballistic calculator.  You can just have the calculator compute in MILS.
Most important is that your turrets and your reticle are either both MILs or both MOA and not one in MILs and one in MOA.  This will make it much easier for you to quickly just use the reticle to adjust your shots.
Most of the SWFA scopes are reticle/turret MIL/MIL.
Back to Top
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics God
Optics God
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 11814
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 17:47
I disagree on only getting steel.  Some of the best mounts out there these days are made of aluminum. 
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.

"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own."
Back to Top
jmjoker View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: May/19/2015
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmjoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 17:52
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

SS 3-9x is a GREAT choice. Not sure the Mil Dot reticle is ideal for big game, (at least where I am), but it sure covers a lot of ground. 


Thanks Cheaptrick-  happy to share my pointers, I've used my SS 12x42mm for over 2000 shots, and it performs well.

I'd go for the SS 3-15x42MM- In my opinion, its the best do-it-all scope for the money-  You can hunt with it at 3x, and you can also shoot as far as you want with all the elevation travel, and you can shoot in high velocity crosswinds.

Back to Top
jmjoker View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: May/19/2015
Status: Offline
Points: 7
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmjoker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 17:56
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

I disagree on only getting steel.  Some of the best mounts out there these days are made of aluminum. 

Hmmm... Which aluminum mounts/bases/rings are the "best"?  Are they rigid enough/strong enough?  The scope base is part of what holds the action and makes it rigid for optimal/consistent barrel harmonics and accuracy.

Back to Top
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 4015
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billyburl2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/19/2015 at 18:12
http://swfa.com/Aadland-Dual-Lug-30mm-Rings-P64835.aspx
http://swfa.com/Seekins-Precision-Scope-30mm-Rings-Low-082-P47911.aspx
http://swfa.com/Seekins-Precision-Picatinny-1-Piece-Base-P47929.aspx
http://swfa.com/Talley-Picatinny-1-Piece-Base-P47315.aspx
http://swfa.com/Talley-Lightweight-Aluminum-30mm-Scopemount-P8382.aspx
 I run those mounts in combinations on several different rifles. I also have a set of Badger steel rings on a IOR Steel base on my 300WSM, because that thing eats scope mounts! (It has sheared the front #6 screw twice. They are now #8's)
If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.207 seconds.