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Spotting scope, 100 to 300 yard use on the range |
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w squared
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/09/2015 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Posted: November/09/2015 at 11:54 |
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Hello all. Thanks in advance for being gentle, I'm new here.
A little bit about me - I enjoy shooting recreationally (30 minute drive for a range with a 200 yard line, and over an hour to get to a 300 yard rifle range). I'm shooting a little bit of .223, but mostly .308 or 7.5 Swiss. If I could get everything I want, I would love to be able to spot my hits at 200 yards with .223 and at 300 yards with the larger calibers. I am okay with using "splatter" type targets to do that if need be. I am hoping that with wise input from the folks here, I can "buy once, cry once" for a spotting scope. I appreciate that there are scopes in the $1100 to $1500 range that will more than fill my needs in a compact package, but if I am going to spend that sort of money I will need to wait a while - and I can't help but think that those scope might be overkill for me. (If I'm wrong in that notion, please disabuse me of it!) I've read what the search engine turned up on suggestions for spotting scopes, so I have a few directed questions: #1. I have no interest in buying a Barska scope that makes me think I am looking through a drinking straw with a brown filer on the end of it. I know that I going to be spending multiple hundreds of dollars to get a usable spotting scope for my intended purpose. #2. How much will light gathering ability (objective lens size) make up for less than perfect glass? I see that Celestron offers an "entry level" scope with a 90mm objective, and Konus has one with a 100mm objective - but am I fooling myself in thinking that running a scope with a larger objective can make up for glass of lesser quality? I won't have a big issue with a larger or heavier scope since it's really only being used at the range - I have good binoculars that serve very well for for field use, since I am seldom glassing animals beyond 200 yards. #3. If I spend the few extra sheckels to get into something like the Vortex Diamondback, will a 60mm scope do what I'm looking for, or should I be looking at an 80mm objective? (I ask about the Vortex because I've had good luck with their products on rifles and they seem to have a couple offerings that are near the higher end of my desired price range) #4. For my intended use, is it reasonable to stay within the $250 to $500 range? Do I simply need to suck it up and save some more money to get a scope that will do what I want it to? #5. Is the a high-value option that I haven't noticed yet? Something that hits a "sweet spot" combining the right size of objective lens and reasonable quality glass? Thanks in advance folks!
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22284 |
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First of all welcome to the O.T. w squared.
Second, your questions have been asked before. At least I have asked some of them. I'm not the expert here, but I can tell you about my experience. I tried a $400.00 20-60x80 spotter to see .30cal. holes at 300yds. only to be disappointed, sent it back, and decided to save up for a Vortex Razor, or Kiowa. I stumbled on a deal for a used Pentax PF80 with 20-60 eyepiece. It does the job. Is the best out there; no, but it gets me out there except on hot sunny days, but not much will. Go back through the spotting scope section and you'll find there is a wealth of information. Don't forget a good tirpod and head for your scope too. The best scope out there is worthless if it's always moving when your trying to look through it. |
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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w squared
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/09/2015 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Thanks, Beltfed. I will continue saving some pennies.
Any input from the forum members on the Sightron offerings? I've purchased one of their rifle scopes in the past and I found that it was an exceptional value - does the same hold true for their spotting scope offerings? They are higher than my initial "target" price range, but still less than most of the true HD/ED spotting scopes that I have seen.
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BeltFed
Optics Retard Joined: February/12/2008 Location: Ky Status: Offline Points: 22284 |
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I don't know about their spotting scopes, but I've read good things about their Blue Sky SII binoculars. I think I'm going to try a pair of their SIII Magnesium binoculars. Keep in mind that my requirements for binos are different from my spotting scopes. The Sightron may meet your needs, but then again they may not. The Pentax meets my needs, but just barely. The Vortex Razor was my goal, and I would have felt better it (buy once, cry once), but I couldn't pass up the deal.
You may want to check out the Zen-Ray 20-60x82. I've heard it rates with the Razor. |
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Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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CrystalBullet
Optics GrassHopper Joined: January/08/2016 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I have to give a +1 for the Blue Sky SII as they're very well built and very light. I have dropped them twice on hard wood floor since I bought them and amazingly they still work fine. The SIII's are next on my list but I'm pretty impressed with the SII's and the price is not too bad either. |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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The Pentax is a great spotter for the money.
On glass quality vs objective size: glass quality wins. Every time! For a spotter, get the b at glass you can afford. And, wisely, avoid anything that says Barska. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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FrankD
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/11/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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I have some slightly differing thoughts.
I don't do any target shooting but I do use spotting scopes almost daily for a variety of demanding activities but most often for birding and occassionally hunting. I have seen some very high performing models at very reasonable prices. That is the beauty of the current sport optics market...high performance has trickled down to reasonable price ranges. Now, having said that the least expensive spotting scope I would suggest you consider is the Theron Optics Saker 60 mm. Excellent optical performance for the price. It is an ED glass scope that performs well above its price point. The straight version sells for around $280. Magnification range is 15-45x. Next would be the Celestron Regal M2 series. They come in three sizes, 65, 80 and 100 mm and all feature ED glass. The 65 mm sells for $409 and the 80 mm for around $580. Both perform well against anything under $1000. Just two that I have had experience with in the past and that are affordable for most folks.
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Frank
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Marine24
Optics Journeyman Joined: June/07/2010 Location: Monument, CO Status: Offline Points: 687 |
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The Zen-Ray 20-60 ED2. I principally use it at the range and use a Phone skope with it. Very convenient setup.
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Son of Ed
Chuck Norris Joined: June/18/2011 Location: TEXAS Status: Online Points: 122191 |
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Years ago I bought a junky Russian el cheapo spotting scope with a 50X top end and it was okay to see bullet holes from the bench. I wouldn't consider it to be a scope to take hunting, but it was okay to look at a target. At 100 yards it looked Life-sized!
I think I paid about $70 for it. Strictly for looking at bullet holes on a budget....I stuck it on my camera tripod....
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Visit the Ed Show
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w squared
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/09/2015 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Well, it's time for me to wake this thread up again.
I just noticed that SWFA has the Vortex Razor 20-60X85 HD spotting scope as a clearout price. Yes, I know that they have a newer/lighter version of the same scope coming out....but that newly lowered price is very appealing to me. $1200 for glass that is close to alpha quality is sounding very good. The other thing that I noticed is that they offer a fixed 30X eyepiece with an MOA reticle - that is very appealing to me. In order to get an combo of a useful reticle, that objective size, and the same quality glass I'd be looking at a Leupold Mark 4 20-60X80 at $2400....as opposed to $1450 for the Razor and the eyepiece. Even the 60mm Leupold ends up being a bit more than the Vortex 85mm, and I am fairly sure that the Vortex will outperform it (unless weight and size are a major factor) So....this is an opportunity to tell me that I am complete putz for considering the purchase of a product that is being discontinued....or for being a Rambo wannabe and wanting the option to run an MOA reticle (shockingly enough, my main purpose for a spotting scope is shooting at long ranges, so there is a bit of method to my madness) Am I completely out to lunch?
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3_tens
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/08/2007 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7853 |
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Picked up one of the Razors when the price dropped. Also added the Mil 30X reticle. Love the scope. Spotting and calling shots using the mil reticle alongside the SS scopes is a dream come true.
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Folks ain't got a sense of humor no more. They don't laugh they just get sore.
Need to follow the rules. Just hard to determine which set of rules to follow Now the rules have changed again. |
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w squared
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/09/2015 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Yeah....there's going to be an SWFA scope on my RPR in the future. I had honestly planned on upgrading rifle and scope before spotting scope, but I think I may just jump on this and continue to shoot my K31 as I save my pennies.
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w squared
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/09/2015 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Where did you find an MRAD eyepiece for it? All that I can find is MOA. Not the end of the world since I have not yet purchased the scope that I ultimately intend to use it next to, but there's a voice in the back of my head saying that mils may be the way to go in this case.
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emily
Optics GrassHopper Joined: September/02/2016 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Mils is way better then MRAD in my opinion maybe i prefer it because i have been using it for a while now
Edited by Skylar McMahon - September/02/2016 at 12:44 |
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Skylar McMahon
Optics Jedi Knight Capt. BlowHard Joined: April/05/2011 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 6082 |
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I agree with Mils(MRAD) being better than MOA? For me, it is easier to make corrections that are base 10 scaling. I.E. 10,20,30,40, 50, ect... |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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??? Mils = Milliradians = MRAD. All the same thing. Did you mean MOA rather than MRAD, perhaps?
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Kickboxer
MODERATOR Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Offline Points: 23679 |
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Or maybe a lack of understanding the topic.
MOA rules...
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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Skunk
Optics Journeyman Joined: November/05/2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 323 |
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No, no, no. I heard the president admiral general Aladeen of Wydia, changed the name to Aladeen adjustments and Aladeen adjustments. So, I for one love Aladeen adjustments? |
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Let me give you my two scents worth
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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Bease there are only two types of measurement, metric, and people that have been to the moon! |
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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w squared
Optics GrassHopper Joined: November/09/2015 Location: Alberta Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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Okay, two updates.
First, I had to get rather sneaky to find an eyepiece with the MRAD reticle. I was unable to find a single one in the US, so I reached out to a friend in Canada and we found one at a Canadian distributor. As an added bonus, I was able to pay with funny colored Monopoly money. Second, I went to the range with the scope today. This is the sort of performance that I was looking for and then some. Conditions were note bad, but not ideal - 92 degrees, typical Houston high humidity, a bit hazy, and with mild mirage. At 200 yards, I can easily read 30 caliber holes on white and orange paper. At 300 yards, I can still read 30 caliber holes on white paper. Even when I pushed the range out to almost 400 yards I was still able to make out the 30 cal holes on paper, and "Shoot n See" targets meant that the holes jumped out like the holes in paper at 200. I'll also say that this spotter provided better resolution, clarity, color fidelity, and overall build quality than anything else I have ever used. I will readily admit that I've never used a true "Tier 1" scope like Swarovski, Zeiss, or Optolyth...so that may be why I'm so impressed. If the moons align tomorrow I'll be back at the range again, and we'll see how it does at 400 and 600 yards....and maybe I'll even start trying to educate myself at how to pick up bullet trace in a spotting scope if I can convince a friend to join me.
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