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Peddler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2016 at 11:40
Vaya Con Dios
When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.

It is the same when you are stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kickin45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2016 at 12:00
That is very true. Most items we purchase are unfortunately made in China. But when I actually have a choice to purchase or not purchase those items, I take it. A small stand, but a stand none the less.
And I'm also not paying $600 for a Chinese made scope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Urimaginaryfrnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/03/2016 at 14:21
Why am I not convinced to buy one.Indiana Jones

"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 09:12
Originally posted by wranglerdog wranglerdog wrote:

I was on a site on face book that seamed like there were just a bunch of hipecrits on every time you made a post you were attacked by a bunh of bored pepole that have nothing to do but cridesize and act stupid . well it was easy to get away from it ha ha you guys enjoy yourselves I'm out of here .

Yet another reason to not be on facebook.

If the generalization is meant to apply here, I'm not sure to what hypocrisy you are referring.

For those who might come after, I would point out that the regulars here are always looking for new products, new makers, and new features to which we have never been exposed.  There is no ill will toward those who bring new things in or to those who have personal experiences with them.  That said, there will always be skepticism toward those that say their $300 scope equals or bests a well known $1500 scope.  We've heard it many times, we've seen it never.  And that scepticism will grow with each vague generalization and with a complete and total lack of detail regarding the evaluations.

On the Zen Ray comment, they are indeed good for the money; however, they aren't the equal of alpha-class stuff.  I heard so many good things, I bought a pair of 10x42 to compare to my go-to pair (Leica Ultravid) and my standby pair (Vortex HD.)  I am happy to discuss that comparison, but suffice to say I was impressed for the price point, but didn't shelve either of the other 2.

Finally,  to newcomers, be aware that new manufacturers (or rebranders) love to come in and mention themselves here - or send a proxy - to hock their wares.  This happens often and is expressly meant to accomplish 2 things:
1.  Sell optics by association ("If it is mentioned on Optics Talk, people will buy it.")
2.  Get hits so the item appears in a google search.

The second isn't terrible, the first is a huge disservice to those who seek advice in real world utility/value.  As a regular, I do my best to help point people in the right direction, no agenda whatsoever; and it bugs me endlessly when others impose their agenda to sucker new buyers.

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Even me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verminator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 10:25
on the zen ray comment with the prime HD I struggled to see any difference...if I was buying it would def be the zen ray over the swaro considering the price differenceYippee 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 11:35
If you don't see the difference then don't pay for the difference. But I would have to ask what were the conditions when you were comparing them. Was it indoors, outdoors, what were the lighting conditions and what were you looking at? Also are you expecting too much? Just because one costs twice as much doesn't mean that they are twice as good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 11:49
The deciding factor for binos is the same as it is for rifle scopes: intended use.  On a sunny day of casual birding, you might notice no difference.  In dense woods with lots of shadow, low light, and hours on glass, you really start to see how optics differ.

As Sparky said, if you see no difference for your uses, awesome; but others using the optic under different circumstances might see things differently, literally.

I get the same question often on AR15s: why pay $3,000 for one when you can pay $800 for almost the exact same thing.  This is somewhat true.  And if you will be shooting 100 rounds/year, you'll see little difference.  If you ever put 2,000 rounds through both in a day, the differences become obvious really quick.

No one is saying you aren't seeing what you are seeing, we are simply pointing out that circumstances of use (and abuse) often make differences more obvious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 15:28
Originally posted by wranglerdog wranglerdog wrote:

I was on a site on face book that seamed like there were just a bunch of hipecrits on every time you made a post you were attacked by a bunh of bored pepole that have nothing to do but cridesize and act stupid . well it was easy to get away from it ha ha you guys enjoy yourselves I'm out of here .

If at first you don't secede...try..try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 19:05
I don't think you are giving the gentleman's comment the appropriate commentary response… It deserves much more considered, resolute and unambiguous commentary. 

However, this IS a family forum and the appropriate commentary is frowned upon...
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheaptrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 19:10
Too much?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 20:20


Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verminator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 20:21

  it was outdoors and we did a side by side overcast day. and to be honest the guy who had the swaros thought the zen rays were as good just as bright just as wide field off view. and the swaros were 3 times as much as the zen rays. but I would say if they was better to my eyes I could not see a difference in them conditionsBig Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 20:34
Originally posted by verminator verminator wrote:


 thought the zen rays were as good just as bright just as wide field off view.


There is a lot more to it than brightness and FOV. But like I said earlier if you can't see the difference don't pay for the difference.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/04/2016 at 22:44
They say...compared to " PA "..........what the heck does that stand for ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verminator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2016 at 07:08
yep there is more to it than brightness and F.O.V  accepted but both the sets off binos were not mine so I only had a brief look for  5 mins but first impressions were what iv'e already stated...maybe sparky can do a side by side and enlighten us all and tell us exactly why he thinks the swaro's are worth 3 times as muchYippee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marine24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2016 at 07:58
PA=Primary Arms?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2016 at 18:07
I went and visited Athlon at SHOT.  They look like they got a well defined product line put together and the reticle designs look fairly intelligent at first blush.

I'll be looking at a couple of their products.  The higher end stuff is Japanese (Cronus), the rest is Chinese.  Some of the Chinese products are made by the same OEM as PA, but with Athlon's reticles.

I'll let you know what I think once I spend some time with these.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fiveshotdot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2016 at 21:58
I stumbled across this brand a few days ago in a search and this is one place I usually find valuable information. Ilya I value your opinion and enjoy your reviews and the following statements have nothing to do with you. But I can say the way a certain "wrangler" was treated was a bit harsh. It was obvious from grammer, usage of punctuation, and sentence structure he was putting forth his best efforts. There is certainly no need to jump on anyone. This is an informational forum, correct? If there were questions about shooting conditions, he simply could have been asked.
   Moving on, These scopes have gotten good marks from all reviews I have seen so far. From tracking, reticle accuracy, clarity, to overall build quality, these scopes are looking like a "win". I am planning on calling the hq tomorrow to see about visiting them (I only live an hour from Lenexa KS.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wranglerdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2016 at 22:24
Thanks five shot dot if you.go to Athlon ask for Kevin .
I hope you do and find there products to be better than I tried to explain them one thing I don't do is blow sunshine about hunting and or shooting optics .
Oh I have a new phone and the spell check is crazy .. lol have a good night
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/01/2016 at 08:11
Granted, Jeff was a little quick to pounce on Wranglerdog however in his defense I will say that he was set off by the vagueness and touchy feely type desciptions.  We are forever fielding such posts and they are often generated by the inexperienced and somewhat naive.  Most of the regulars here are either professionally involved in optics / shooting arena and or avid sportsmen.  Many are here to both share with others and learn from others...  

With that being said, it's no leap that when someone comes in touting something new that we are:

1) immediately interested in whats new.

2) immediately skeptical of most all of those items claims.

3) annoyed by non quantitative and objective propaganda spouted in excitement or purposeful mis-direction.

That last one gets most of us members at one time or another.....  

The brainiacs of this forum love talking technical details and such. So when someone starts off with touchy feely descriptions and statements of "compares equally to Alpha Glass 3 times at 3 times the  cost" without technical data to back it up it instantly grates.....

This is a 'MARS Expedition" type site.....  Making / posting Venus type statements are bound to stir someone's pot....    Just saying!


Anyway please don't take it personally, we are always interested in new products and technology.
Most of us here,  with an analytical mindset might have a tendency to be short when time after time most all the Touchy feely claims are unsubstantiated or proven to be false over time....

So it's probably best to leave the "Touchy Feely" type discussion at home with your wife...
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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