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What Hunters Want

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    Posted: January/12/2017 at 09:24
As you guys know, I am a newby here and although I have 40 years experience in nature observation I know next to nothing about what hunters want from their bins.

From different sources I have gleaned the following:

Some hunters don't focus much and once they have set the focus, they don't want it to move unintentionally. So a stiff focus and a slow geared one seems necessary for this. I can imagine sitting in a hunting tower overlooking a clearing or waterhole and the hunter focusing the bins while there is still enough light and then just wanting to lift it up now and then as the light gets dimmer in the evening to take a look. At some point focusing becomes impossible in the twilight so I can see where this is coming from.

Other folks say hunters don't need a big FOV but I would think it depends on the sort of hunting being done. Deer stalking in Scotland  (or the Rockies?) would appear to involve scanning big areas of mountain side so I would have thought a big FOV would be useful.

OK guys, put me right. What specifications and features do hunters want from their bins?

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gunut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 10:33
some hunters like slight color enhancements where animals stand out more than they normally would from the foliage around them.... also a good depth of field...

gunut
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Troubador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 10:56
Originally posted by gunut gunut wrote:

some hunters like slight color enhancements where animals stand out more than they normally would from the foliage around them.... also a good depth of field...



Hi Gunny

What about hunters going after goats and similar stuff on rocky mountain sides. Wouldn't an artificial colour that is useful in scrub and woods/woodland edges be bad for them?

Depth of field is magnification-dependent (and to a certain extent on the observer's accomodation, or the degree to which the oberserver's eye can refocus on different distances for example the far side and near side of the true depth of field) so not much that can be done about that.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 11:37
Hi Lee:

Almost everything in optics is a tradeoff. It is a fact that binoculars with ruby coated lens (if coated at the right thickness) will bring out a brown deer against a green foliage background better than the same bino coated with MgF2. BUT, it will slightly reduce the effective aperture, which some people choose to see as a real bugbear.

And then, if they’re really beneficial (which I have never seen), why do we see that Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski don’t offer them in their lineups. Is it because their knowledge of optics lags behind the Asian startups that offer them? Or, are they offered by the Asians because they have learned through 80 years of empirical experience that westerners believe everything they read so they don’t have to chip a nail doing their own research?  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Troubador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 12:03
Originally posted by WJC WJC wrote:

Hi Lee:

Almost everything in optics is a tradeoff. It is a fact that binoculars with ruby coated lens (if coated at the right thickness) will bring out a brown deer against a green foliage background better than the same bino coated with MgF2. BUT, it will slightly reduce the effective aperture, which some people choose to see as a real bugbear.

And then, if they’re really beneficial (which I have never seen), why do we see that Zeiss, Leica, and Swarovski don’t offer them in their lineups. Is it because their knowledge of optics lags behind the Asian startups that offer them? Or, are they offered by the Asians because they have learned through 80 years of empirical experience that westerners believe everything they read so they don’t have to chip a nail doing their own research?  



As you say Bill, optics is a tradeoff. Score a goal over here, lose one over there.

Design your hunting bins for forest work, you hack off those that hunt in different habitats and lose out on the possibillity of birders buying your hunting bins too.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 12:33
Lee, 

As far as binoculars go, the needs of the hunter are not terribly different from those of a birder.  I've been talkign to hunters about this for the last fifteen years.

Low light performance is critical.  Same for contrast.  Edge performance is not that huge a deal, so I would go for a wider FOV even if it costs some edge performance.

The focusing knob does not need to do anything terribly extravagant, setting the gears for mid-to-slightly fast speed is your best bet.

Coatings that help pick out certain colors are useful, but other than Steienr nobody has really done all that much with that concept and if the binocular has good microcontrast, I would not worry about it too much.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 12:57

Lee:

With optics, perception and the power of suggestion rule—pity, really. People talk so much about depth of field as if it is a nebulous thing often related to brands; it’s not at all. Mathematically, it deals with focal length and distance to the target—period. Ah, but physiologically. Well, that’s a different ball game. One observer might talk about his bino's great depth of field while his friend finds it’s not that good.

Observer #1 has a dioptric accommodation of 4. Observer #2 has one of 1.5. People spend SO much time quibbling over mechanical things, when the problem might have nothing to do with mechanics.

Following is a snippet from my vignette on that “auto-focus” bull that started in the 90s and still haunts the more cranially challenged.

Despite what you have read or been told, there are no non-electronic auto-focus binoculars.

“But how can that be; I saw it myself?” Answer: The power of suggestion.

Years ago I made a bent-nail puzzle and gave it to a friend to tinker with while we talked. Figuring it out in short order, I grabbed the puzzle, turned my back, put it back together, and gave it to him again saying, “Okay, hotdog, let’s see you get this one apart as fast; I put it together backwards.” Although we continued talking for quite a while, he couldn’t figure it out.

The puzzle only worked one way. Thus it couldn’t have been put together “backwards.” Yet, the power of suggestion caused him to flounder.



Edited by WJC - January/12/2017 at 14:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 16:25
All I can tell you is what I like, and I'm definitely an avid hunter.

I tend to lean more towards compact, light, moderate power optics, which seems to go against the "more is better" trend I see.

To me, my Leica Ultravid HD 8x32 bino defines perfection. It has excellent image quality, with outstanding resolution, and my eyes prefer Leica's design philosophy as it pertains to contrast. It really excels at flare suppression, among the best I've seen, even when viewing toward sunlight at dusk. Leica made some welcome improvements in focused smoothness from the original HD models on, and I've got no complaints there. I really like Leica's approach to setting barrel diopters too.

The size and weight are perfect. I'm willing to trade a slight reduction in ultimate low light performance for the reduced size and weight, so 32mm objectives are a good compromise in 8x. Still, I don't sacrifice much low light performance, as the UV 8x32 still takes me past the limits of legal shooting hours where I hunt. 8x is my favored magnification, because it provides just enough detail with generous FOV, with fairly expansive depth of field that I don't need to change focus as much as with 10x. It also minimizes hand tremor, which is beneficial in a midsize 32mm roof prism bino. I just think 8x32 is an ideal compromise of everything. I think you really need 42mm or larger objectives to get the full benefit from 10x.

The hydrophobic lens coating is frosting on an already delicious cake! I've found that extremely useful in keeping my lenses clear in rainy weather.

The ONLY thing I would change about my 8x32 UV HD bino is the price tag. With the significant advances in $1k class binos, in spite of how much I love it, I'm not sure I'd spend Leica $ if I was shopping for new binos today.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 16:49
I can only speak for me, and like Rifledude, I am an avid hunter.  My dad took me mule deer hunting when I was 11 (1971) and I've been hooked on them, and various big game ever since.

My criteria is:
Optical excellence, especially sharpness. I do not get carried away with a wide FOV, nice feature tough.  
Glare/flare control mandatory.
Slow focus allows me to really "nail" a very sharp view easily without passing back and forth.
Preferrably have a built in tripod adaptor.
No eye relief issues.  Eyecups that stay put wherever you set them.  I do not wear glasses.
No sloppy rubber armoring that "moves around", or fits poorly
High build quality.  Everthing that is supposed to move should do so very smoothly.
Lifetime transferrable warranty, excellent customer service.  Stuff happens in the field and I do not
     want to worry about getting screwed by the manufacturer.  

My binocs of choice that fit:  Swaro 10x50 SV,  Leupold Gold Ring HD, Meopta Meostar HD,
     Swaro SLC HD, Tract Toric HD.  


Just got this 37" buck yesterday BTW.....Luck trumps skill any day. 



Edited by JGRaider - January/12/2017 at 16:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 17:05
I once dropped a 12-point, in a heavy wind, at 800 yards, with a single shot from my Marlin 336. But, just as I was about to reach my trophy, the alarm went off and I had to get up and get ready for ... work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 17:22
Damn nice buck JG! As it so happens, I'm sitting in a blind, using the aforementioned Leica 8x32, whitetail hunting in south TX, SW of Falfurrias right now as I type this. Which means I'm shutting my phone down now.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3_tens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 17:58
Good luck.
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Now the rules have changed again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 18:28
👍🍸Ted!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whitefire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2017 at 20:10
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Damn nice buck JG! As it so happens, I'm sitting in a blind, using the aforementioned Leica 8x32, whitetail hunting in south TX, SW of Falfurrias right now as I type this. Which means I'm shutting my phone down now.


South Texas... Got a really nice nilgai in Kennedy County a few years ago. Must go back.

Excellent buck JG.

Lee, good thread. I'm as much a nature observer as a hunter...
Birds, squirrels, bobcats, coyotes and leaves of different shapes, sizes and colors keep me entertained until deer emerge. Such observation has yielded an appreciation for good glass, in rifle scopes., absolutely but even more so with my binocular.

I value low light capabilities above all else, however, excellent color rendition and a sharp image are a close second.
Wf

Edited by Whitefire - January/12/2017 at 20:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JGRaider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2017 at 05:33
Good luck Ted.  Great country you're in down there, that's for sure.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Troubador Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2017 at 06:00
Thanks you guys, please keep posting.
I am sure there are plenty more opinions and points of view out there.

Lee
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2017 at 06:32
Thanks for the Good Luck Wishes, fellas. I didn't score yesterday eve. Best buck I saw was a main frame 8 that might have gone 120, not what I'm after in this country. I'm here until mid day Sun, so the hunt is still young.

Back to the bino feature wishlist, I agree with JG on the focusing speed. I want sufficiently fine thread that I can easily hit a precise focus without overshooting the focus. It doesn't necessarily have to be a super fine pitch focuser, I just don't like the fast focus where half a turn takes you from 10 yds to infinity. Too easy to overshoot crisp focus with that, especially if wearing gloves. One of the reasons I like 8x so much is that the hyperfocal distance is close enough that I can set focus for a fairly short distance and objects out to infinity are still reasonably focused enough that I don't have to do much focus adjustment throughout the hunt.

It also has to be tough. It's gonna get dropped and bumped many times.

Daylight is nearly here on morning 2, so gonna shut 'er down again. Send more cyber wishes my way!

Edited by RifleDude - January/13/2017 at 06:42
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2017 at 07:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2017 at 07:15
may a 240+ walk into your crosshairs...  Howdy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2017 at 07:30
I want binos like Luke had in Star Wars, they zoom in on my target, have perfect clarity, show azimuth at the bottom, and have lots of electronic swirls and circles and distracting crap to draw my attention away from the actual thing I want to see.

Rifledude, good luck. I love south Texas hunting, should be there now, but alas, life gets in the way.
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