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Criterion 6.5 creedmoor barrel issues

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supertool73 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2017 at 22:21
Out of curiosity i threaded my 30p-1 onto every 5/8x24 barrel i have. It has wobble on every one of the right up until it contacts the shoulder of the barrel. Honestly once you get about 3 or 4 threads on the wobble feels almost the same til its tight to the shoulder. I also did the same with my thunder beast brakes and flashiders. I have 5 of them in 1/2x28 and 5/8x24. All of the wobbled right up until they make contact with the shoulders

Also my ultra 7 that has their cb attachment. It threads onto the muzzle devices and has a conical shoulder to tighten up against. All 5 of my muzzle devices have the same amount of wobble right up until the ultra 7 contacts the shoulder. Both of those tolerances would be controlled by thunder beast. So i am pretty certain at this point having wobble until they are tight is the norm. I don't see how the could be threaded on and off by hand if they were crazy tight
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2017 at 22:25
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

Criterion barrels: noted.

Never.
Ever.
Ever.
Ever.


No doubt. I read so many good things about their barrels but this is leaving a very sour taste. Will report my phone conversation tomorrow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigdaddy0381 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 07:17
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Out of curiosity i threaded my 30p-1 onto every 5/8x24 barrel i have. It has wobble on every one of the right up until it contacts the shoulder of the barrel. Honestly once you get about 3 or 4 threads on the wobble feels almost the same til its tight to the shoulder. I also did the same with my thunder beast brakes and flashiders. I have 5 of them in 1/2x28 and 5/8x24. All of the wobbled right up until they make contact with the shoulders

Also my ultra 7 that has their cb attachment. It threads onto the muzzle devices and has a conical shoulder to tighten up against. All 5 of my muzzle devices have the same amount of wobble right up until the ultra 7 contacts the shoulder. Both of those tolerances would be controlled by thunder beast. So i am pretty certain at this point having wobble until they are tight is the norm. I don't see how the could be threaded on and off by hand if they were crazy tight


there is a fine line between wobble and out of spec. I prefer to have the item being threaded on in hand when I do the threading or at-least one like it. That way I can cut the wobble to a minimum, but if the threads are spec the first few might have some wobble but after 1/4 threaded on it shouldn't wobble but not be tight ether.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 07:36
The second video. The kind of movement he is getting with the guage. This is what i am referring to as wobble. https://thunderbeastarms.com/videos?s=thread
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 13:00
Well Criterion said they would shorten and re-crown the threads.  Overall they have been very easy to work with, their CS has been very good. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SEMO Shooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 16:04
Interesting videos.  I have seen some barrels with pretty poor muzzle threads.  I know some gunsmiths that need to watch them and learn more about proper threading for suppressors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 16:21
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Well Criterion said they would shorten and re-crown the threads.  Overall they have been very easy to work with, their CS has been very good. 
Obviously, it would have been better had the "fit" been perfect at purchase.  However, the response makes up for a lot.  I was about to purchase a Shilen barrel, but Criterion is now a "contender".  I like people and organizations that take responsibility… appears they meet the criteria.  
I like posts like this...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 16:29
I'm spoiled, my smith's work is pure artistry. His threads are beautifully precise, no burrs anywhere, and everything chamfered where it should be, squared where it shouldn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 16:52
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I'm spoiled, my smith's work is pure artistry. His threads are beautifully precise, no burrs anywhere, and everything chamfered where it should be, squared where it shouldn't.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 17:26
Now I just hope it shoots well.  I have read good things about Criterions shooting well.  They are button rifled, hand lapped.  So as long as the chamber is good, they ought too.  We will see I guess. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 17:26
Originally posted by Rancid Coolaid Rancid Coolaid wrote:

I'm spoiled, my smith's work is pure artistry. His threads are beautifully precise, no burrs anywhere, and everything chamfered where it should be, squared where it shouldn't.


Who is he?  Does he have a website?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/08/2017 at 19:18
http://rprifles.com/default.aspx/MenuItemID/138/MenuGroup/RobertsPrecisionRifles+Menu.htm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rancid Coolaid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2017 at 10:40
After all on my blathering yesterday, I get my new 6.5 and screw in the can and I'll be damned if the thing doesn't wobble a little almost all the way to the shoulder.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2017 at 11:09
haha.  I wonder if it is as Ted said that many (especially mass production barrels, which most of mine are) use a class 2 thread and your precision smith uses class 3.  So many of yours fit tighter.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2017 at 11:14
That makes me wonder what is used on some optical assemblies I have seen. The treading feel is buttery smooth and there is no perceptible wobble at all.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2017 at 14:04
Basically what RC and others are seeing with regards thread fit on a mating thread cut by gunsmith is the difference between cutting a mass-produced thread to print spec vs. individually mating a thread to a particular part. Don't misunderstand; the former is not an indication of low quality or lack of QC; it is simply the reality with mass production. The manufacturer of the barrel has to cut the thread within industry standard thread tolerances with complete interchangeability in mind, so that any manufacturer's brake/flash hider/suppressor fits any barrel they make. They will use a go/no go thread ring gage to check fit. If the "go" ring gage mates up with the thread and the "no go" won't fit, the thread is within spec.

A gunsmith or anyone making custom parts will "sneak up" on the fit by first checking thread fit at max material condition, then using the ACTUAL mating part as a gage, check fit after each cutting pass, stopping as soon as the two mating parts just thread together with no extra clearance for interchangeability. This results in a custom thread that fits the part with precision, but may not be "in spec." The advantage here is you have a nice precision fit to the actual muzzle device. The disadvantage is the thread may not fit any other given muzzle device with the same thread pitch, depending on what class of fit a thread on a given muzzle device is cut to and where its pitch diameter, root diameter, and crest diameter falls within the specification limits. A gunsmith can do this because they are making a one-off custom item. A high volume manufacturer cannot size a barrel thread for a precision fit to one single mating part or they run the risk of many brakes/suppressors not fitting, which will obviously piss off consumers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/09/2017 at 15:01
Hey, that's sorta what I said.  Just in fewer words.  Wink

Your the man Ted.  Thanks for your great explanations.  Its awesome having a machinist to teach us these things
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote criterionbarrels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2017 at 11:11
Good morning,

We appreciate the feedback regarding desired changes regarding our thread length. We are putting together an engineering change notification to have the design specifications modified for future production batches.

I'm glad we were able to accommodate your request to cut down and recrown your muzzle threads to meet your desired specifications. Feel free to let us know if there is anything else we can help with on our end!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2017 at 11:31
Thanks Josh.  Glad to see you guys commenting and willing change specs based on feedback.  I am wanting a new light weight AR-15 barrel and the one you guys are making for american defense mfg looks very good. 

I do appreciate you guys fixing that for me.  Mike was great to help get my issue resolved. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/12/2017 at 12:04
Welcome to the forum, Mike!

I have a couple of your barrels (that you make for Fulton Armory) and they have been working well for me.

ILya
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