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Deer Hunting Scope |
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Tip69
Optics Master Extraordinaire Tip Stick Joined: September/27/2005 Location: Nebraska Status: Offline Points: 4155 |
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I hunt with a Browning BAR in 30-06 and I have a Kahles 2.5-10x50 and it is perfect! these are not made anymore, so doubt you could find one. For both my Son's... I bought them Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40.. and they are also excellent.. but also, not made any longer. i would seriously consider that Vortex Koshkin recommended. I own a pair of Vortex bino's per Koshkin's recommendation! Here are two that I would consider if I didn't like the view thru the Vortex... off the samplelist.com Zeiss 2.5-10x50 Diavari $1,299 Zeiss 3-15x50 Conquest HD5 $899.99 Bausch & Lomb 2.5-10x40 $249.99 Swarovski 4-12x50 Z3 $749.99 Edited by Chris Farris II - June/05/2018 at 10:50 |
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take em!
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Chris Farris II
TEAM SWFA - Admin MODERATOR Joined: August/13/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3196 |
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I would also consider the Swarovski Z3 3-10x42. They are under $800 and the glass is phenomenal. For 300 yards and in you don't need anything with a turret or any more magnification. The Vortex and Leica are very good scopes as well.
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One day your life will flash before your eyes; Make sure it's worth watching.
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Son of Ed
Chuck Norris Joined: June/18/2011 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 122210 |
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" '...under $800!!!!' " |
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Visit the Ed Show
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probably
Optics Apprentice Joined: June/01/2016 Location: Old America Status: Offline Points: 70 |
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In 30 years of hunting, I have never seen anyone turn the power UP to see better in low light. It is always a case of turning the power down to make the image brighter.
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Sakoshooter
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/07/2018 Location: Alberta, Canada Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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This seems unbelievable to me as well, I guess the light works differently over there?
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13182 |
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The light works the same. The sweetspot of low light performance is different for different people and different light conditions.
For example, for moonless nights you have to be at a lower power than when the moon is out to get the most out of your optics. Another factor is your eye. For some people eye pupil does not dilate as much as for others. The less your eye pupil dilates, the less advantage you get from lower magnification. The same happens if your eye has not fully dark adapted. For some people, it takes a long time for their eyes to get dark adapted and if you happen to glance at your phone int he process, you get to start over. With all that, to me Leica ERi is a better low light scope than the Summit, albeit not by too much. For CBD, it is the other way around. Everyone's eyes are a bit different. ILya
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Scrumbag
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: October/22/2013 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 4205 |
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If you can get the Swarovski 4-12x50 you will have a great scope for deer hunting
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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Scrumbag
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: October/22/2013 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 4205 |
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For a longer shot I'd want a bit more for choice. 6x42 or 7x50 Scrummy
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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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cbm
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/11/2008 Location: SC Status: Offline Points: 580 |
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I hate to high jack the guys thread. But I have already clarified it once and will do it again " I never said it got brighter on higher magnification". I never said the exit pupil improved when cranking it up. It is totally a magnification issue. If you guys can shoot a soda can at 100 yrds an hour after dark with a 2x or 4x scope, then I am more than impressed, I certainly can't. And in the total interest of making a completely ethical shot, I want to see the critter I am shooting as well as possible for the conditions. I want to make sure I am shooting a doe or buck or hog. I want to watch it's head go up and down and it's ears twitch. I do not want to be shooting at dark blobs that I don't know if they are facing right to left, or left to right. I guess my eye's are way different, because it takes a really good scope, capable of transmitting a good image on a reasonably high power, with a reticle that I can see well, for me to shoot ethically at 45min- 1 hour after legal sunset(which is legal here). I have had a lot of scopes. A lot of them crapped out 30 min after sunset on the highest power, then I adjusted down to 8x, to 6x, to 4x or whatever until it was not working at all and I had to leave. I'm just saying the Schmidt and Benders I have been using(and the one 8x56 Classic I sold my friend) all keep on going most of the time even on 8x-10x. I have had to generally leave the deer stand because I ran out of legal time so far, not because my S&B's have stopped working. And I have had a Kahles Helia C 3-12x56, two Swarovski PV 3-12X50, Leica ER 2.5-10X42, Swarovski Z5 5-25X52, Zeiss Diavari 3-9x42, Zeiss Diatil 4x32, about 6-8 Zeiss Conquests, a few Bushnell 4200's and 6500. Weaver Classic Extreme 2.5-10x50. I still have a Nikon Monarch UCC 6x42 that is shockingly good. Many Tasco's, Weaver, Simmons,etc. And probably some others I am not thinking of. I have been hunting all of my life and at 48 been shooting for at least 43 years when I got my first 22 cal, which was shortly followed up with a hard kicking single shot 20 gauge, that was a character builder.
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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This is the confusing statement, and each time I read it, it makes less sense. You say they come in "so late at times that the only way I can see them is cranking up...". Usually later means darker, so they come in when it is very dark (and thus the 85-90 yards part) and to get a better view of the animal in very low light, you increase magnification. That is the opposite of what I do: as light fades, I decrease magnification to get a better view. at very last light, the best view is always - for me, at least - on the lowest magnification. Then again, I am in Texas, and lose legal shooting time before I run out of light to shoot. If it works for you, keep doing it. To scoper, if you can find an old Swaro AV, it is money well spent. If I were putting a 1-6 on something that didn't have to be hella light, it would be the Vortex 1-6 HD, I have one that moves around on guns and it is amazingly clear and adequately bright, and they got the illumination right. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Sparky
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: July/15/2007 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 4569 |
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I would take a look at the IOR 4x. Has there versions with the only difference being the reticle. Edited by Chris Farris II - June/07/2018 at 11:03 |
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Sakoshooter
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/07/2018 Location: Alberta, Canada Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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It could be that I misunderstood your original post, but here's what I read that made no sense to me. Regardless of the light level, a deer 85-90 yards away at, say, 2.5x magnification would appear to be at 35-40 yards distance. No admittedly, I have very good vision, but with the naked eye and given low, yet sufficient light I could easily make out any relevant details atvthat distance and from my experience would never "dial up" the magnification as that will automatically reduce the brightness of the image. I don't think that this depends on the scope brand or quality, with any scope I've used, when it gets too dark to resolve details at a given range, it gets worse when I dial the magnification. Obviously as the light fades it does become more difficult to see at distance, but lower magnification has always brightened the image, while of course reducing the detail as I zoom out. Maybe I'm wrong here, I'm not trying to give you a hard time and I've never hunted with an S&B scope but am aware of their reputation as the very best of the best. |
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Sakoshooter
Optics Apprentice Joined: May/07/2018 Location: Alberta, Canada Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Can't edot posts and I would like to clarify my last post.
I understand that scopes vary in low light ability obviously, and that: scope A) might be able to zoom in to 8x in low light and provide a detailed and sufficiently bright image. scope B) might need to be dialled down to 2.5 times to provide a sufficiently bright image. Obviously, scope A in this scenario would allow a lot more detail to be observed at a given level of light (or lack thereof). My confusion is to the statement that seems to say that when it's too dark to see enough detail with scope A, you can crank up the magnification and the detail will improve. At 90 yards, if it's too dark to see sufficient detail using scope A at 2.5x due to the low light levels, (im other words, 2.5x is fine, but as the light fades it becomes useless) cranking that same scope up in magnification will definitely make yhings worse, since the problem isn't enough magnification, it's insufficient light. Maybe we're saying the same thing two different ways, but whenever I've experienced fading light do the point where I can't resolve details any longer, increasing magnification has ALWAYS made things worse. |
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cbm
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/11/2008 Location: SC Status: Offline Points: 580 |
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I don't know, everyone that I hunt with uses lower powers until dark to take advantage of the FOV. Then starts adjusting them up to zoom in on something they want to shoot. It's just easier to get the scope on target or the general area on low power, and then go up from there.
Guys I'm going to have to drop it. I can't shoot at my deer at 90 yrds in super low light on 2.5x but I can on 8x. I don't personally see how anyone could out of my stands but I can not see through their eyes, nor they through mine.
Edited by cbm - June/06/2018 at 14:23 |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I have to agree on the IOR 4X fixed, it is a great scope. I have it on a 45-70 and love the scope (but hate the gun.) For cbm and "your eyes vs my eyes", it isn't a problem. When people say things that go against my experience, I usually point out my experience, which is what I did. I'm not calling you or your gear out, only saying it deviates from my experiences and my gear. |
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Freedom is something you take.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Although increasing magnification decreases the exit pupil of a given scope and makes the image dimmer, it also increases detail, so there is always a balance between magnification and exit pupil as it pertains to low light performance. Up to a point, increasing magnification increases your ability to discern target detail in dim lighting even as the image gets continually dimmer/exit pupil gets smaller, until exit pupil gets small enough that the light loss to your eye is no longer sufficient for the magnification level. Given a 2.5-10x50 scope of excellent optical quality and optical system transmission %, you will see greater detail in low light at 9x with 5.5mm exit pupil than you will at 4x with 12.5mm exit pupil, for example...even though the latter is technically “brighter.” This relationship between magnification and exit pupil/effective objective lens diameter is referred to as an optic’s “twilight factor.” If you have a large enough objective lens such that you don’t go below around 4-5mm exit pupil diameter, increasing magnification improves your ability to discern detail on your target, even as the image is getting dimmer. This goes against commonly held belief that exit pupil and optical system transmission are the sole determining factors of low light performance. It ain’t all about “brightness.” 10x on a 50mm objective (5mm exit pupil) will thoroughly trounce 5x (10mm exit pupil) on the same scope in terms of resolving detail at moderate target distance in low light for most people, despite the huge exit pupil penalty. What you lose in light delivered to your eye is more than compensated by increased resolving power. Of course your eyesight acuity determines how much magnification can be dialed up before continuing to increase magnification no longer yields a corresponding increase in image detail.
Low light performance isn’t just an issue of “larger exit pupil is better.” It is a major oversimplification to just say that dialing up more magnification on a given optic always reduces your ability to see target detail in low light, as nothing could be further from the truth. Larger exit pupil at a given magnification does indeed improve low light performance, but increasing magnification while still maintaining a reasonably large enough exit pupil will often yield greater low light capability than merely chasing a “brighter” image. To your brain, greater image detail appears brighter. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Incidentally, before anyone brings it up, I’m not a proponent of the “twilight factor” concept as a blanket “more is always better” philosophy. Twilight factor alone is nearly meaningless because it fails to take into consideration the quality of the optical system, coatings efficiency etc. Nevertheless, the concept it attempts to describe is valid. That is, up to a certain point, increasing an optic’s magnification does improve the ability to resolve more detail in dim light. Again, that applies up to a certain point. At some point, continuing to increase magnification begins to have the opposite effect as the exit pupil diameter decreases enough that you are no longer gaining the benefit of increased resolution. The point being, in low light, turning magnification down is not a blanket prescription for improving your ability to “see better” or to precisely place a bulllet on target. Good low light performance involves having BOTH sufficiently large exit pupil and sufficient magnification on tap, conjoined with having excellent optics and coatings to begin with. If one wants the ultimate low light scope and values low light performance above all other attributes, he will be better served by both a larger objective and more magnification, provided top end magnification still provides somewhere in the neighborhood of 5mm-ish exit pupil.
In reality, most high end 42mm objective variable scopes with 8x-10x on the upper end will take you well past legal hunting hours dictated by law in most states, and on non-game species not governed by legal shooting hours, well beyond that. This also assumes a well designed reticle for the task, which may mean illumination. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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No, no, no.
That is all. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Peddler
Optics God Joined: July/04/2012 Location: Oswego,NY Status: Offline Points: 13526 |
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My ERI 2.5-10 X 42 #4 gets the job done. |
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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.
It is the same when you are stupid. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Yes, yes, yes. I’ve tested this on numerous occasions. This is well-established fact. Don’t take my word for it. Setup an object at about 100 yards, view at at last light with something like a 2.5-10x50 or 3-12x56 high end scope, run the magnification up and down and see for yourself which magnification helps you resolve the greatest detail in dim light. Large exit pupil alone does not improve low light performance. Large exit pupil in concert with good optics and higher resolution is the ticket for best low light performance. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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