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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Having the action accuruzed isnt going to fix a crappy barrel. If u are going to start spending money on things like that then just teplace the barrel. 90% of the accuracy will be the barrel. The rest will be all the little things that may or may not even matter based upon your shooting and loading skills.
You could have someone like mcgowen put a new barrel on your gun for $500 or less and it would likely be a tack driver. Just something to consider. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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More i think about this the more i think you should start from scratch. Buy some federal gold medal match 168 grain. This is known good ammo. Clean you barrel so all copper and carbon is gone. Torque your stock, mounts and rings properly. Shoot 4 or 5 fowler shots. Adjust scope just so you are on target. Then shoot multiple 5 shot groups. But do it in groupls of 5. So have 5 points of aim on your target. Shoot once at each target. Let barrel cool then ahoot 5 more at each poi and so on til you shoot 25 rounds.
Don’t adjust anything during this test. Make sure you call all your shots, make sure you know exaclty where your crosshairs was when the trigger breaks. Make sure you are holdinf the rifle the same each time, cheek weld is the same, grip is the same, eye placement the same, magnification the same, rest is the same, trigger pull is the same, etc etc. Once you get a good base line then 1 thing at a time start to make changes and go from there. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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Lockjaw
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/17/2016 Location: Chelsea Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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The solvent I got was G96 and it says its military grade and removes lead, copper and powder residue. I have some Hoppe's solvent too.
I cleaned it again last night. With both. I have a nylon brush, so I kept running it and then patches down until it was clean. I have some of that Federal Ammo, I shot it before, it shot it ok. Remington said they got .8 inch with their match ammo when the test fired it after they did some work on it. They redid the crown and chamfered the barrel. I added a short muzzle brake to protect the crown. I think the Hogue stock with the full aluminum bed block is solid. I have another 700 in one, and it shoots really good. Probably .5 moa. That is what is so aggravating with this one. I was expecting similar results. What I like about it is the gun is easy to shoot. I can shoot a lot of rounds and not get sore. I use an Allen filled bench shooters bag. So if i get a good or a bad group, the bag never changes. I think bedding the recoil lug would be good. But if I changed out the barrel, then maybe I need to hold off on that. I don't like the trigger all that much, but lightening the pull makes it better. |
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tejas
Optics Journeyman Joined: March/08/2010 Location: Lone Star State Status: Offline Points: 575 |
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1 1/4” groups in a factory Remington with factory ammo aren’t bad. To turn it into a sub moa rifle may cost you a LOT. Couple of cheap and easy things to check. Where are you putting your sandbag? Don’t put it under the fore end for obvious reasons. I use two bags. One under the action just in front of the trigger guard and one is one somewhere in the rear part of the buttstock so it doesn’t effect my position and therefore my cheek weld.
Since you reload, you should be able to find something that rifle likes. Start with good brass. What you said about using a digital scale bothers me a little. I use a mechanical scale and I weigh every powder charge every time for every rifle. Handguns, I weigh every 5th. Start with a minimum load and build 5 “foulers” Shoot these first. Lots of factory barrels shoot better when they aren’t cold and clean. Build your other loads in groups of five each from minimum to maximum charge weights skipping 3/10 of a grain in between each. Don’t fire them in order. Set up one target for each load and shoot them randomly at the corresponding target. That should give you a starting point. Seating depth makes a big difference. Someone else mentioned that but I don’t think you responded. Soot the bullet and find your depth. You can google it. .020 jump is a good starting point. Case lube...don’t reload anything with case lube still on the brass, tumble it. |
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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I had a Rem700 Varminter. I could only get it up to 1 inch grouping...no matter what.
I then had the barrel air gauged. The internal hole diameter of the barrel was oversized and also inconsistantly sized. In other words it was bigger and smaller along the barrel. I am talking about the long hole where the bullet passes in the middle of the barrel. It was a 308 caliber. Remington refunded me for the barrel and I fitted a custom barrel. It was a whole new ballgame with a 1/4 grouping out the block. The barrel is just about everything in accuracy. (in my humble opinion.)
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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My opinion...do not waste $$$$ on trying to find the magic. I put about a 2000 rounds through my Rem trying to "fix" what can't be fixed with loading 1/10th grain more and 1 thou seating variations and...
Take all that money and fit a proper barrel. Or sell the rifle. My new rifle with a custom barrel with no dope on loading just shoots clover leafs. All day long if I do my part Yeah I just had to say that last bit
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mike650
Optics God Joined: May/14/2006 Location: West of Rockies Status: Offline Points: 14569 |
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I'm remember all the pain you went through with that Remy varmint rifle
Wouter. You were faithful in trying to fix it even with all the hassle of you being located on the other side of the pond from Remington. |
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“A hunt based only on trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.” – Fred Bear
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Is Dyna Bore Coat still available? I've wanted to try it, but the last time I checked, it had been discontinued.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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I missed this on the first pass. This is an excellent suggestion too! I have a Fieldcraft in 7-08, and it is an outstanding rifle in every respect! Fit and finish is great. It comes with a great trigger (Timney, designed specifically for that rifle). Barrel twists used for all chamberings were obviously decided by someone who has a clue. Bedding is perfect right out of the box, with each stock individually bedded to the actual barreled action it is mated to. They use longer than normal mag boxes so you can load longer high BC bullets out to the lands and still feed from the magazine. The stock they use is very high quality, carbon fiber construction made by AG Composites, and it is well finished with a "granite" looking speckled paint that is very durable. It is extremely lightweight, weighing about the same as a Kimber Montana of the same chambering. It has an extra mount screw hole in the front of the receiver, which allows you to use 2 different mount positions to adapt to different scope tube lengths and eye relief positions. The bolt handle is held in place by an ingenious slot and set screw retention method, which is very strong, yet allows you to change bolt handles should you wish to do so later (assuming different handles are available...IDK). Every review I've read from those who own one has had very good accuracy results, and mine will shoot as well, delivering consistent sub-MOA groups despite the pencil weight barrel profile. On top of all that, Barrett has a great customer service reputation, so in the rare chance you get a lemon, they will take care of you. Sometimes it's just best to quit beating your head against the wall, putting lots of time, effort, and $ into trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Unless the rifle has sentimental value to you, it's just a factory rifle, nothing special. I say punt. If you've repeatedly tried different things and spent a lot of money trying to get it to shoot and it still doesn't meet your expectations, cut your losses, sell it, and buy something else. It will cost you in the neighborhood of $500 - $700 to rebarrel it, should you choose that route (cost of the barrel blank plus labor to chamber, thread, cut to length, crown, and finish). Add that to the two stocks you've already bought, not to mention the time and frustration you've endured... when all is said and done, no matter how much you spend on it, you still have a Remington 700, so you will never recoup anywhere close to the cost you have in it should you decide to sell.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Lockjaw
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/17/2016 Location: Chelsea Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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The rifle was a gift, so... probably not going to sell it. I'd rebarrel it though. I like the carbon fiber one that is out there.
I will work on a hand load it likes. I need to stress this is a hunting rifle. I like it because its fairly compact, but the heavy barrel lets me shoot lots of ammo if I want to. And I enjoy that. It's not to heavy that I wouldn't want to carry it around, but its not to light that it beats me up. My Ruger Hawkeye 308 compact weighs 5.75 pounds without scope. It has a solid rubber butt pad. It is not fun to shoot a bunch of ammo out of it, but it sure is handy in the woods. Or a shooting house. And I can suppress it. The bag i use the rifle sits down in. So its from the front of the trigger guard forward. I would like a bag for the back, and may try that. When I let the gunsmith at the store across the street shoot it, that is what he uses, 2 bags. He got 1.5 MOA, so its better than it was. He had 5 different kinds of ammo. |
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Lockjaw
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/17/2016 Location: Chelsea Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Midway has it.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Ah, so they do. Thanks! I saw the “discontinued” statement at Brownells and another site and didn’t search further. Evidently it’s the “kit” with the bottle of alcohol they once offered that was discontinued, not the DBC itself.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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urbaneruralite
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 479 |
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Getting the rifle to ride bags with the bore perpendicular to the target as possible is a huge part of consistently printing the smallest groups. Change in bag placement from shooting is a common cause of flyers.
The rifle should ride straight back with the crosshair rising perfectly vertically without hopping or twisting, the same way every shot. For hunting rifles, a butterfly bag up front and a rabbit ear with a hard bottom on the rear works the best that I've found. A lightweight hunting rig will print bug holes if it is capable.
Bulls Bags are butterfly bags, but others have copied them. Protektor Model is the standard for the rear. You can adjust elevation on the front by using two stacks of sandbags made from pants legs under the butterfly bag. If the stock has aggressive texturing, dryer sheets placed on the bag help the rifle slide. Depending on your purpose, 1.5" isn't all that bad. Wasn't Weatherby a big deal for guaranteeing 1.5" 3 shot groups some years ago? |
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Lockjaw
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/17/2016 Location: Chelsea Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Weatherby guarantees 1moa with their ammo I believe.
I don't think my bag thing is ideal. I think the back of the stock needs to be supported. However, that is the bag I use to shoot everything, so when I get a really tight group, or a really sloppy one, its all done the same way. I sent McGowan a message about a barrel. When I look at all their stuff, I just get a brain freeze. I told them I basically wanted a replacement barrel that was as close to the factory one as possible. What I find really interesting is I can go out to my hunting club, which is not idea, since I am shooting sort of down, and get a decent grouping, then go to a range, and its a little different. If I play around and get it down around 1 moa I will probably call it good with the factory barrel. It just bugs me that my old 700 shoots so darn well, as does this savage, and then I get a bull barrel 308 and its not like those two guns. I mean can I just get an Axis and have the barrel cut down 2 inches, drop a trigger in it, add a stock and call it good???? LOL... Maybe that is what I need to do. Although the savage action is longer.
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Buy a Tikka and no more issues. They are the best of the cheap rifles IMO.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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With few exceptions, mass production factory rifle accuracy is a crap shoot. Some will really shoot way above their pay grade, others are underachievers. If it doesn’t shoot, you can do all the little tweaks this far discussed and your efforts are futile if the barrel is subpar. Barrel quality has the most influence on precision of any other factor by far. Either you got a good barrel or you didn’t. If you did, you can tune it with the common accurizing tweaks and load development and get it to shoot. If you didn’t, it’s a money pit, and no amount of tweaking and no amount of money spent will correct the problem short of barrel replacement.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Lockjaw
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/17/2016 Location: Chelsea Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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McGown says send the barrel to them and they will duplicate it.
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supertool73
Optics God Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 11814 |
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Injust saw carbon fiber barrel in a post. :). Since i just got one, gotta say i like it a lot. I gained 4 inches of barrel and shed 1.5 lbs of weight.
It shoots really nice too. The barrel cost me $800ish then $450 to chamber, thread barrel and bed to action. Did i meantion i really like it. |
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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8shots
Optics Jedi Knight Lord Of The Flies Joined: March/14/2007 Location: South Africa Status: Offline Points: 6253 |
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Amen brother Amen
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tejas
Optics Journeyman Joined: March/08/2010 Location: Lone Star State Status: Offline Points: 575 |
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Don’t want to hijack the mans thread, so a quick question only. Is the barrel on your Barrett free floated? I read on they’re website that they aren’t. I’m wondering how they are getting such good accuracy from a light barrel that is bedded into the stock. |
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