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Caliber and bullet for elk hunt |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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Felt recoil is really impacted by stock shape (drop) and recoil pad size, so keep that in mind when comparing different rifles. As Jason pointed out, with 270Win it will take a little more powder to get the same weight bullet moving at the same speed, which will also make it a kick a touch more. That is not a very big difference though. Stock shape is usually the most important actor between broadly similar cartridges. I remember, the first time I shot the CZ550 308Win with its hog back stock off the bench, I thought it was a recoil beast. Upon further analysis, it turned out that the hog back stock is designed for irons and with as scope on and off the bench, it smacks you in the face pretty nicely (works quite well for shooting off hand though). ILya
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Whatever factor is contributing to this observation, it isn’t related to action length or the cartridges chambered in same. Most likely, the long action rifles you’ve been shooting either happen to have better barrels, better triggers, stocks that fit you better, were shooting loads that were better tuned to the rifles, or some other logical mechanical factors involved. Action length has no bearing whatsoever on either how well a given rifle shoots or how well a person shoots said rifle, and certainly not in favor of the long action. If that were the case, all competitive benchrest shooters - the shooting sport where the utmost inherent precision possible is demanded - would be using long actions and long action cartridges, and they aren’t. The overwhelming majority of them are using short actions and short action rounds such as 6 PPC. You should never draw any conclusions about any rifle’s potential precision based on action length, as there is no correlation to action length. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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urbaneruralite
Optics Journeyman Joined: January/03/2008 Status: Offline Points: 479 |
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The point about the powder is a good one. However, you are talking about a grain of three of powder and maybe 100 fps. Those small values would seem to disappear when consider things like faster or slow barrels and a person's perception or build. Maybe not, though, because I agree the /06 class kicks more. Action length absolutely affects how well you can hit if one suits you better. The mechanical accuracy may be finer with a different rifle, but what works on a bench is not necessarily what works for a particular person from field positions. I don't doubt some people find the opposite of what I do, but for me, if I want to hit the mark I tote a different rifle than just what I like to shoot. FWIW, my main hunting rifles are all Browning A-Bolts with the same style stock. I really like my 25 WSSM. It prints bugholes off the bench. I hit my mark better with the same gun in .300WM. Groups from that one are slightly larger.
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Not trying to be combative, but no sir; it absolutely has no influence whatsoever. Action length is totally transparent in the system, because all the factors that affect how well you shoot a given rifle platform are the things you are in contact with during the shot - the stock shape/ ergonomics and trigger - along with how good the barrel is, and whether the load is well tuned to the rifle. Weight can play a factor here too, but a particular short action rifle isn’t necessarily lighter than a long action rifle. You are not interacting with the action during the shot, not touching it, and no part of your body is in contact with it or influenced by it in any way while you are taking the shot, so the action length isn’t having any influence in the shot cycle. The only time you are manipulating the action is during the time the bullet has already long ago exited the barrel. Action length is completely a non-factor in how well you shoot a rifle, because you can get the same length of pull, same center of gravity, same barrel length, same weight, same stock ergonomics, and same trigger designs in short action rifles as long. Whatever you are observing that contribute to how well you shoot with either are related to something else besides that 1” difference in receiver length. The point about bench shooting is related to inherent precision of the rifle itself. No matter the shooting position, if the rifle itself isn’t mechanically sound and capable of good precision, it can “suit you” and feel right in your hands all day long, but it is going to limit your ability to shoot it well if it doesn’t shoot well to begin with. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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Son of Ed
Chuck Norris Joined: June/18/2011 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 122166 |
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A 30-06 will do....take a 300 Winchester Magnum if you are spooky....
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Visit the Ed Show
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Lockjaw
Optics Journeyman Joined: May/17/2016 Location: Chelsea Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Why not get a BAR if you are recoil sensitive? I don't think they are to heavy.
I have a 700BDL 270 in a Hogue stock, which tames it nicely. The worst kicking gun I ever owned was a Savage 110 in 270. BRUTAL. I am shooting 178 ELD-X precision hunter in my 308 this year, see how I like it. When I ran it thru Nikon's spot on program, it looks like it carries the energy downrange nicely. When I compare the 270 to the 308, I will take the 308 all day long. I can shoot mine for hours, its a 700 SPS AAC-SD. Same stock as 270. Bed block Hogue. Big fan of that stock for taming recoil, its not the lightest out there though. I think the weights are actually quite similar the 270 may weigh a little more. We had a guy shoot a doe at my hunting club a few years ago with a 338 Win Mag. We never found it. We found hair and a good blood trail, but no deer. So it just goes to show you... he swapped it for a 30-06. If you want a soft shooter, the 7-08 would be the way to go. |
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billyburl2
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: January/08/2009 Location: Cottonwood, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4015 |
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IMHO, the biggest factor in hunting any game, bullet placement is going to put meat in the freezer. Being comfortable with YOUR ABILITY, takes practice. No matter what caliber, what bullet, if you put a whole through their heart or through their head, they die.
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If it is tourist season, why can't we shoot them?
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Peddler
Optics God Joined: July/04/2012 Location: Oswego,NY Status: Offline Points: 13526 |
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Amen 💥.
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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.
It is the same when you are stupid. |
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Urimaginaryfrnd
MODERATOR Resident Redneck Joined: June/20/2005 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 14964 |
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If you have shoulder problems the question is not so much what is the largest caliber you guys use to shoot critters the question is what can I use that will reliably work without causing myself further damage. Asked that way I suggest you consider 7mm08 I think .243 is a tad light but if you have one of those matched with a deep penetrating bullet like a Barnes hollow-point you can very realistically hunt them with that. Distance to target is a huge factor but around 200 yds I think the 7mm08 will do a fine job for you. The alternative is to select a semi auto version of a heavier caliber but weight becomes an issue with some of those. I'd look real hard at a Tikka every one of them I have shot has been quite accurate right out of the box. Browning makes a BAR in several calibers including the 7mm08, & 30-06 etc
Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - January/03/2020 at 19:52 |
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"Always do the right thing, just because it is the right thing to do". Bobby Paul Doherty Texas Ranger |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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I always enjoy starting a thread, cataloging a few things I think need to be said, then running smack into a post I made over a year ago, saying almost exactly what I think today is relevant.
I do love the old thread resurrections, keep'em coming. On another note, I trophy hunted this year - for the first time in many years - without the 300WinMag. My objective was to spend more time stalking, and to not go as big as I went last year (my white tail scored right around 183, gross); however, this year, I got on a 192 that was almost perfectly symmetric, tall tines, a dream of a deer, and he all but ran right to me for shooting. And, of course, all this happened when I had nothing but a lowly 308 gas gun (16" barrel, more set up for varmint, I but I had a mag of 168 TAP along for just these instances.) The deer dropped on the spot with a perfect exploding front shoulder shot. In all truth, I was reluctant to pull the trigger on a trophy without the winmag; but confidence, confidence, confidence. The gun in hand had ranges cards for both rounds, from 25 yards to 500. There is much wisdom in the "pick the bullet first" conversation. After that, practice, practice, practice! |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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And for the sayers of nay, here he is before taking his dirt nap.
It was about this distance and time that something spooked him from behind and he ran straight at me, stopping at about 30 yards when I grunted to stop his advance. He'll be on the wall in a few months. Why the photo upload went in sideways, I do not know. |
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 8903 |
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VERY nice deer RC.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the capabilities of a .308 especially at the range you mentioned!
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God save the Empire!
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Son of Ed
Chuck Norris Joined: June/18/2011 Location: TEXAS Status: Offline Points: 122166 |
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A 30-30 will drop a deer dead in his tracks up to 200 yards....I only had one deer run after she was heart-shot....and dropped within 50 yards.....so all of the BIG guns will certainly do the job....
Everything I ever shot with a 270 dropped where they stood. Everything I ever shot with a 300 Winchester dropped in their tracks. But, yes, you do have to hit them right.
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Visit the Ed Show
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Sparky
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: July/15/2007 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 4569 |
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Yes VERY nice deer RC!! Congrats! Shorter ranges allow smaller calibers with good shot placement.
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Peddler
Optics God Joined: July/04/2012 Location: Oswego,NY Status: Offline Points: 13526 |
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Nice buck! Very nice.
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When you are dead, you don't know you are dead.It is difficult only for others.
It is the same when you are stupid. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Wow, that’s a really nice buck!
A 183” and 192” in successive years?!!! I’ve been hunting for 46 years and have never seen a whitetail buck close to that except on high fenced game ranches. Are you hunting on a high fenced ranch? If not, you’ve found one hell of a deer nirvana!
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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tahqua
MODERATOR Have You Driven A Ford Lately? Joined: March/27/2006 Location: Michigan, USA Status: Offline Points: 9042 |
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Damn RC! Outstanding
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Doug
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Scrumbag
Optics Master Extraordinaire Joined: October/22/2013 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 4205 |
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Great Deer RC!
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Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Rancid Coolaid
MODERATOR Joined: January/19/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9318 |
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High fence game ranch.
When not managed, the biggest I have seen is about 170.
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Freedom is something you take.
Respect is something you earn. Equality is something you whine about not being given. |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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The largest native, free-ranging TX whitetail I’ve ever seen live on the hoof would probably go mid-150s or so. He still haunts me some 20 years later, as he suddenly hopped behind some brush as I was flicking off the safety and I never saw him again.
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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