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.458 Lott problem solved...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2021 at 15:51
Went to the range today... took the CZ700 and the Weatherby Vanguard w/LSS XL chassis... both .308.  I had a great time except for one small thing...AMMO.  A while back I got a GREAT deal on some SSA (by Nosler) 168gr SMK advertised at 2750 fps from a 24 inch barrel.  I didn't check it, took their word for it made all my calculations for 26 inch and 20 inch barrels.  Velocities were OK, a little slower than advertised, but not too bad.  However, accuracy was crazy.  I won't ever buy that stuff again.  Did some checking when I got home and found that it has a bad rep for extremely poor consistency.  It's OK to "plink" with, I just expected better from something Nosler put their name on.  In 70 rounds, I got a couple of good groups from each rifle... under 1/2 MOA... but mostly 2 or 3 good rounds out of 5 and then some WILD flyers.  I had a guy sitting next to me who shot a 0.14MOA 4 round group at 1000 yards with 6.5 Creedmoor (measured and calculated by the electronic system)try it out and he said "your ammo sucks"... he is shooting in a competition the range is holding in June.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/26/2021 at 19:07
I've inspected the .458 Lott casing under 4x magnification... I can find NO pressure indications.  So this load is definitely safe, though it is 0.1 grain below MAX for this setup.    
However, H4895 will not get me where I want to go... Perhaps IMR4895.  There are still a few I've not looked at.
It also appears I'm going to have to move pretty slowly (a trait I am unaccustomed to) as everything I've tried in simulation so far has gone to red to reach 2450fps.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2021 at 21:05
Been doing a bit of experimentation with the Lott.  I can't find the propellant I'm looking for... especially in these times of idiocy... can't even find powders that are on the very BOTTOM of my list.  Selfish, ignorant people buying up EVERYTHING they can just so they have it and someone else cannot.  Stupidity of the highest form.  

I once actually, naively, believed this of mankind:
"They can be a great people, Kal-el, the want to be,
they merely need the light to show them the way."

I no longer believe that, not in any way, shape, or form...
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There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2021 at 03:01
Kickboxer, I have Pierre van der Walt's excellent book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges" which collate load data from a lot of good and reliable sources.

He doesn't list any loads getting to 2,400 fps or above unless you drop down in bullet weight to 465gr. I can send you the load data if you like? (Be easier if you PM me your email address)

Scrummy


Edited by Scrumbag - March/14/2021 at 03:36
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2021 at 07:36
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Kickboxer, I have Pierre van der Walt's excellent book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges" which collate load data from a lot of good and reliable sources.

He doesn't list any loads getting to 2,400 fps or above unless you drop down in bullet weight to 465gr. I can send you the load data if you like? (Be easier if you PM me your email address)

Scrummy
Scrummy,
 I would very much appreciate that data... PM sent.  I have Wolfe Publishing's "Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges" and John Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartridges" and about 20 other historical references, but none go into extensive detail on the Lott.  Always interested in the history... of course I have Jack Lott's writings on the subject.  
BIG problem right now is I just cannot get the powders that claim to be the "best" for the Lott.  
Thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2021 at 18:39
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Kickboxer, I have Pierre van der Walt's excellent book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges" which collate load data from a lot of good and reliable sources.

He doesn't list any loads getting to 2,400 fps or above unless you drop down in bullet weight to 465gr. I can send you the load data if you like? (Be easier if you PM me your email address)

Scrummy
I have reviewed the data and thank you very much... some interesting load information there... some I've not seen in any of the load books, files, etc that I have.  I'm still shooting for (get it??? SHOOTING FOR...) 2450 fps, especially with the 475 grain Bulldozers from Badlands Precision... those bullets are superbly accurate and, the few I've shot so far, highly destructive.  
I need powder...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2021 at 12:47
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Been doing a bit of experimentation with the Lott.  I can't find the propellant I'm looking for... especially in these times of idiocy... can't even find powders that are on the very BOTTOM of my list.  Selfish, ignorant people buying up EVERYTHING they can just so they have it and someone else cannot.  Stupidity of the highest form.  

I once actually, naively, believed this of mankind:
"They can be a great people, Kal-el, the want to be,
they merely need the light to show them the way."

I no longer believe that, not in any way, shape, or form...


I’ve never had a high opinion of the average person but I’ve thought of my fellow Texans a little more favorably. That said, you’ll even find folks here trying to scalp their fellow Texans on ammo and reloading components, particularly primers. I don’t have a .458 Lott but looking at burn speeds the powder I have available that I can spare are Varget, V.V. N140 and IMR8208. If I were you, I’d definitely want to try the 8208. It’s almost magical, and it meters very easily. If you know a way for me to get you any or all of those without breaking the bank, I’ll send you enough to develop a load with. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2021 at 13:34
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Kickboxer, I have Pierre van der Walt's excellent book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges" which collate load data from a lot of good and reliable sources.

He doesn't list any loads getting to 2,400 fps or above unless you drop down in bullet weight to 465gr. I can send you the load data if you like? (Be easier if you PM me your email address)

Scrummy
I have reviewed the data and thank you very much... some interesting load information there... some I've not seen in any of the load books, files, etc that I have.  I'm still shooting for (get it??? SHOOTING FOR...) 2450 fps, especially with the 475 grain Bulldozers from Badlands Precision... those bullets are superbly accurate and, the few I've shot so far, highly destructive.  
I need powder...


Glad it helped my friend!

Scrummy
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2021 at 19:35
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Selfish, ignorant people buying up EVERYTHING they can just so they have it and someone else cannot.  Stupidity of the highest form.  





I am coming across people who are buying pretty any cal they can so they can resell it at a huge markup. Very sad times.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2021 at 20:32
Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Been doing a bit of experimentation with the Lott.  I can't find the propellant I'm looking for... especially in these times of idiocy... can't even find powders that are on the very BOTTOM of my list.  Selfish, ignorant people buying up EVERYTHING they can just so they have it and someone else cannot.  Stupidity of the highest form.  

I once actually, naively, believed this of mankind:
"They can be a great people, Kal-el, the want to be,
they merely need the light to show them the way."

I no longer believe that, not in any way, shape, or form...


I’ve never had a high opinion of the average person but I’ve thought of my fellow Texans a little more favorably. That said, you’ll even find folks here trying to scalp their fellow Texans on ammo and reloading components, particularly primers. I don’t have a .458 Lott but looking at burn speeds the powder I have available that I can spare are Varget, V.V. N140 and IMR8208. If I were you, I’d definitely want to try the 8208. It’s almost magical, and it meters very easily. If you know a way for me to get you any or all of those without breaking the bank, I’ll send you enough to develop a load with. 
David,
 I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that.  I would definitely like to try out the IMR 8208, but ONLY if you actually can spare it.  Loads are going to be in the 72.0+ grains range, so just let me know how much you are willing to part with.  And thank you for reaffirming my belief that there really are good people... 
I have some Varget and have run some numbers on VVN140... I can't pack enough of one of those in to get anywhere near 2300fps.  With my projectiles' length, 73.5 grains is the most I can charge with a 105% load.  However, I'm having a real problem with load data...I've seen some loads claim "good" at 69k PSI... most "hot loads" I've seen claim a MAX at 62.5K PSI, some say stay below 60k PSI.  

Just an OBTW... after being told I was basically an idiot for believing the person I used to have load 7mmSTW for me when he said he sent me some loads he had tested in his rifle 120 grain Berger at 4100 fps (I did not have a chrono at the time and could not verify), I found a site where they are comparing 7mmSTW 140 grain at 4250 fps.  The point here is, the science is good to a point... then it becomes an art. 
Thank you, again.  Let me know how much of the 8208 you are comfortable letting go and I will find a way to get it.  And I am willing to pay more than you bought it for(never had a problem with someone making a profit)... just not 4+ times as much...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2021 at 20:37
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

Kickboxer, I have Pierre van der Walt's excellent book "African Dangerous Game Cartridges" which collate load data from a lot of good and reliable sources.

He doesn't list any loads getting to 2,400 fps or above unless you drop down in bullet weight to 465gr. I can send you the load data if you like? (Be easier if you PM me your email address)

Scrummy
I have reviewed the data and thank you very much... some interesting load information there... some I've not seen in any of the load books, files, etc that I have.  I'm still shooting for (get it??? SHOOTING FOR...) 2450 fps, especially with the 475 grain Bulldozers from Badlands Precision... those bullets are superbly accurate and, the few I've shot so far, highly destructive.  
I need powder...


Glad it helped my friend!

Scrummy
It is a help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2021 at 20:38
Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Selfish, ignorant people buying up EVERYTHING they can just so they have it and someone else cannot.  Stupidity of the highest form.  





I am coming across people who are buying pretty any cal they can so they can resell it at a huge markup. Very sad times.


I remember when people used to help each other a lot more and the majority considered price gouging a dishonorable thing.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2021 at 01:09
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Been doing a bit of experimentation with the Lott.  I can't find the propellant I'm looking for... especially in these times of idiocy... can't even find powders that are on the very BOTTOM of my list.  Selfish, ignorant people buying up EVERYTHING they can just so they have it and someone else cannot.  Stupidity of the highest form.  

I once actually, naively, believed this of mankind:
"They can be a great people, Kal-el, the want to be,
they merely need the light to show them the way."

I no longer believe that, not in any way, shape, or form...


I’ve never had a high opinion of the average person but I’ve thought of my fellow Texans a little more favorably. That said, you’ll even find folks here trying to scalp their fellow Texans on ammo and reloading components, particularly primers. I don’t have a .458 Lott but looking at burn speeds the powder I have available that I can spare are Varget, V.V. N140 and IMR8208. If I were you, I’d definitely want to try the 8208. It’s almost magical, and it meters very easily. If you know a way for me to get you any or all of those without breaking the bank, I’ll send you enough to develop a load with. 
David,
 I cannot tell you how much I appreciate that.  I would definitely like to try out the IMR 8208, but ONLY if you actually can spare it.  Loads are going to be in the 72.0+ grains range, so just let me know how much you are willing to part with.  And thank you for reaffirming my belief that there really are good people... 
I have some Varget and have run some numbers on VVN140... I can't pack enough of one of those in to get anywhere near 2300fps.  With my projectiles' length, 73.5 grains is the most I can charge with a 105% load.  However, I'm having a real problem with load data...I've seen some loads claim "good" at 69k PSI... most "hot loads" I've seen claim a MAX at 62.5K PSI, some say stay below 60k PSI.  

Just an OBTW... after being told I was basically an idiot for believing the person I used to have load 7mmSTW for me when he said he sent me some loads he had tested in his rifle 120 grain Berger at 4100 fps (I did not have a chrono at the time and could not verify), I found a site where they are comparing 7mmSTW 140 grain at 4250 fps.  The point here is, the science is good to a point... then it becomes an art. 
Thank you, again.  Let me know how much of the 8208 you are comfortable letting go and I will find a way to get it.  And I am willing to pay more than you bought it for(never had a problem with someone making a profit)... just not 4+ times as much...


I can spare a half pound of IMR8208XBR. That will build you a 50 or so rounds. Makes my shoulder hurt thinking about that. I’ve also got some N550 I can spare. That may be slower burning than your looking for though. You don’t need to pay for it. Maybe I’ll ask you for something someday. If you’ll handle the shipping that’s good enough. I’ve gained enough knowledge on this site that I’m happy to give something back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2021 at 03:32
I would encourage the use of Viht powders. They are pretty good I find. Also, N140 is quite flexible loads well in things like .223 Rem, 308, 30-06 and also I know a friend of mine uses it in his 416 Rigby.

Viht powders, particularly the N1XX range are known for temperature stability (Vihtavouri is actually Finish and they have nice warm summers and winters that the Russians think are cold so it's a bid deal for them)

Scrummy
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2021 at 07:14
Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

[QUOTE=tejas][QUOTE=Kickboxer]

I can spare a half pound of IMR8208XBR. That will build you a 50 or so rounds. Makes my shoulder hurt thinking about that. I’ve also got some N550 I can spare. That may be slower burning than your looking for though. You don’t need to pay for it. Maybe I’ll ask you for something someday. If you’ll handle the shipping that’s good enough. I’ve gained enough knowledge on this site that I’m happy to give something back.

Most generous, sir. I thank you.  Certainly I will cover any shipping costs.  If I have anything that will help you out, you merely need to let me know.  I'll send you some info. Will PM you shortly... responding to some rain issues right now.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2021 at 07:16
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

I would encourage the use of Viht powders. They are pretty good I find. Also, N140 is quite flexible loads well in things like .223 Rem, 308, 30-06 and also I know a friend of mine uses it in his 416 Rigby.

Viht powders, particularly the N1XX range are known for temperature stability (Vihtavouri is actually Finish and they have nice warm summers and winters that the Russians think are cold so it's a bid deal for them)

Scrummy

I like VV powders, for the most part.  Their stability is "legendary".  Load data for the Lott is meager.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/16/2021 at 11:01
Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

I would encourage the use of Viht powders. They are pretty good I find. Also, N140 is quite flexible loads well in things like .223 Rem, 308, 30-06 and also I know a friend of mine uses it in his 416 Rigby.

Viht powders, particularly the N1XX range are known for temperature stability (Vihtavouri is actually Finish and they have nice warm summers and winters that the Russians think are cold so it's a bid deal for them)

Scrummy

A little off topic but just some info. I recently loaded 10 rounds each of .223 and 6.5 Grendel for my ARs. I used my known accuracy loads for each with N140 and IMR8208XBR. The IMR was slightly more accurate and I didn’t have to use compressed loads. It also had more velocity but not by a big margin. It’s generally less expensive as well. I like having fewer jugs and less types of powder laying around so it’s slowly replacing some of my other stuff. Working on a .204 load now, hopefully it can replace the Benchmark powder as well. Good luck finding it though. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2021 at 04:12
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

I would encourage the use of Viht powders. They are pretty good I find. Also, N140 is quite flexible loads well in things like .223 Rem, 308, 30-06 and also I know a friend of mine uses it in his 416 Rigby.

Viht powders, particularly the N1XX range are known for temperature stability (Vihtavouri is actually Finish and they have nice warm summers and winters that the Russians think are cold so it's a bid deal for them)

Scrummy

I like VV powders, for the most part.  Their stability is "legendary".  Load data for the Lott is meager.


They are good powders I think and in UK probably the most universally available.

458 Lott data isn't terribly common at all my friend. I do know a chap who loads for the Lott and a few other big and interesting things. I will ask what else is out there.
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2021 at 04:20
Originally posted by tejas tejas wrote:

Originally posted by Scrumbag Scrumbag wrote:

I would encourage the use of Viht powders. They are pretty good I find. Also, N140 is quite flexible loads well in things like .223 Rem, 308, 30-06 and also I know a friend of mine uses it in his 416 Rigby.

Viht powders, particularly the N1XX range are known for temperature stability (Vihtavouri is actually Finish and they have nice warm summers and winters that the Russians think are cold so it's a bid deal for them)

Scrummy

A little off topic but just some info. I recently loaded 10 rounds each of .223 and 6.5 Grendel for my ARs. I used my known accuracy loads for each with N140 and IMR8208XBR. The IMR was slightly more accurate and I didn’t have to use compressed loads. It also had more velocity but not by a big margin. It’s generally less expensive as well. I like having fewer jugs and less types of powder laying around so it’s slowly replacing some of my other stuff. Working on a .204 load now, hopefully it can replace the Benchmark powder as well. Good luck finding it though. 
 

N140 is very flexible. It is often touted as a substitute for Varget*

For us, Viht powders are cheapers. For example, out local dealer is charging £39/pot for N110 and H110 is at £59/pot when he can get it.

I have a feeling that when my supply of H110 runs out I will be loading with N110 for 44 mag...
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2021 at 09:47
Spent the day yesterday "rebuilding" my driveway after the heavy rains... it is now in great shape for the next series of floods, etc.  All schools in the area are closed due to predicted tornadoes in the area...beginning late morning and HEAVY thunderstorms... supposedly heavier than Monday night/Tuesday morning.  
I'm not worried about the tornadoes... storm resistant house and I believe the records show a tornado has never hit this area.  But thunderstorm damage is very possible to terrain.  Thunderstorms are beginning now.  
Fun.

UPDATE:  Thunderstorms are HERE.


Edited by Kickboxer - March/17/2021 at 09:57
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