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rootmanslim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rootmanslim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:30
The internet is the home to lots of folks with opinions contrary to popular wisdom. They may be right or wrong. It does appear from visiting lots and lots of threads & blogs on a broad range of subjects that there is a tendency to support the perceived underdog. Leupold makes fine scopes as does Nikon. On pure $ right now the Monarch close out is an excellent deal. In my opinion the Leupold can be bought as new used on Ebay for about the same price as the Monarch. The Leupold guarantee is impossible to beat (not equal beat). As I have noted before the scope opinions here as elsewhere are rather subjective as nobody seems to do Consumer's reports side by side tests monitered by independent accredited testing labs. You can't go wrong with either scope and your perception of performance counts for a great deal.
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pyro6999 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 10:39

Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

The internet is the home to lots of folks with opinions contrary to popular wisdom. They may be right or wrong. It does appear from visiting lots and lots of threads & blogs on a broad range of subjects that there is a tendency to support the perceived underdog. Leupold makes fine scopes as does Nikon. On pure $ right now the Monarch close out is an excellent deal. In my opinion the Leupold can be bought as new used on Ebay for about the same price as the Monarch. The Leupold guarantee is impossible to beat (not equal beat). As I have noted before the scope opinions here as elsewhere are rather subjective as nobody seems to do Consumer's reports side by side tests monitered by independent accredited testing labs. You can't go wrong with either scope and your perception of performance counts for a great deal.

 

i think somebody finally remembered there med's this morning!!

They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Dolphin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 11:10
Would that be Thorazine?  Ceylonc, makes some good points.  After my post and reading his and while still believing it is up to guitarman to make his decision as to what he thinks is best, starting a thread and asking for advice put alot of people into thought modes that takes up their time, as they want to be helpful.  To thwart their advice, as though they came with preconceived notions as to what they were going to buy anyway, is not very thoughtful.  I am not saying that guitarman did this, but I could easily see how this could be seen as the case and understand Ceylonc's point of view.
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guitarman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guitarman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 13:05

Hey guys, I appreciate all of your advice very much, and ceylonc, thanks for your input.  Lol I'll do my best not to trigger ongoing debates, as I tend to do.  Believe it or not, I'm actually a pretty easy guy to get along with in real life, I just enjoy the merits of quality products.  Actually, I believe that Nikon and Leupold are of relatively equal quality.  Many custom rifle makers recommend both brands, and I think they're both awesome.  My very subjective opinion votes in favor (after much "hair splitting") of Leupold, but it is for very very specific reasons, and that is probably my own problem.  It's almost a coin toss.  At the price of the Monarchs right now, it is the best deal on the web.

 

 

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Acenturian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Acenturian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 13:33

Guitarman:

 

Judging from reading your posts you really want the Leupold, so I'd say go with the Leupold.  In my opinion which those are like, well elbows LOL I'd go with the Monarch at its price range but then again I fall into the catagory of thinking while very nice scopes I think Leupold is over priced.

 

You mention durability in a scope. Leupold is known for making a great durable (if a scope can truly be that) product. Yes, they also have the best warranty and one of the best customer service departments out there. I have never needed a warranty on a scope (watch now I cursed myself) but that is an important consideration.  For me, again not a Leupold guy but I like several key things:

*Made in America

* Soild reputation

* Good transferable warranty

 

One area that I personally really like with certain brands of optics that is very often over looked is re-sale value. Now while I never have had to send a scope or binoculars in for warranty work, I have sold off scopes and nocs over the years.  Leupold is known for holding their value, take a look on e-bay some time while you can never get full price for anything used if you decide to sell off the scope you still can get a decent price for it.

 

That was one of my big concerns when I bought my binoculars this year. I saved for an entire year (putting lunch money change aside LOL) and while optics are always the "biggest concern" (at that level you truely are splitting hairs) along with handling characteristics, warranty/customer service but I also took into account that the BIG Three really hold their value if or when I wanted to sell them off. I know the same to be true for Leupold Scopes.

 

Sometimes we (Me included ) tend to be a bit harsh on the Leupold products. I still belive that one can do better for less or equal money, however, there is nothing wrong with their scopes, in fact they still make a great scope. As bit over priced?  For me, I think they are but they have solid reputation.  Just as I have to remember that Leupold is still a very valid option its important for a Leupold fan to remember that there is other options out there as well.

 

Good Luck

AC

 



Edited by Acenturian
If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly

- Anonymous

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rootmanslim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rootmanslim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 13:49
Dolphin & Pyro... why is it necessary to attack someone as mentally ill with whom you disagree. You both seem to be VERY up on drugs used in treatment for mental illness... an interesting fact. (I had to google to see what all this stuff was).
Since you have this obvious fear or distate toward the mentally ill, you might want to hook up with out friend from Sweden as the Jews and the mentally ill all got the same tender care from people with his viewpoints.(aka the SS)
Just FYI: picking on people with handicaps is not really good manners and also legally actionable. So tone it down as it is inappropriate, offensive and makes you both out to be bigots and ignorant. Your apology is accepted in advance.
For you Guitarman..... consider the sources of your "expert" advice before believing it.
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pyro6999 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 13:54
oh i'm sorry master i stand corrected, i forgot god is here on earth again! you know what since you are the all mighty and seem to know everything and have done everything without failure once in your life maybe you should take your weapon arsenal, since its the best on earth and you alone should go over seas and fix the so called "problem" i just call them as i see them and right now the only bigot is you! i have nothing to be sorry for either.
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

343 we will never forget

God Bless Chris Ledoux
"good ride cowboy"
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Dolphin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 14:12
Root, you need to relax.  Nobody is picking on the mentally ill.  You have taken upon yourself to receive such criticism by contradicting every post and recommendations as though it is a personal attack on your beliefs.  Your rheotoric is tiresome and your rants are downright rude.  So before you get off on another tangent about the mentally ill, just relax.
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RifleDude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 14:32

With regards to Leupold, I think most here would agree they are a fine scope, just that they are higher priced than some brands/models offering equal or better optical performance.  And, yes, optical performance is somewhat a subjective thing, unless you are comparing very cheap optics with expensive optics. 

 

I believe selecting a scope is about more than just pure optical performance.  For one thing, a scope is first and foremost an aiming device.  It isn't intended to be used to scan the countryside for game; that's what binoculars and spotting scopes are made for.  This doesn't mean you shouldn't look for a scope offering good optics, but sometimes, optical performance might not be the most important factor in considering which scope to mount on a given rifle.  For specialized shooting such as competition and varmint shooting, sometimes the reticle design is more important than the optics.  Sometimes weight and length can be one of the most important considerations, depending on the rifle.  In this respect, I believe sometimes Leupold can actually be the best choice, since they offer more options than anyone else.

 

For most of my rifles, I didn't choose Leupold for the reasons already mentioned.  There are just too many fine scopes out there that offer a better value in my opinion.  However, there are a couple of applications where I believe a Leupold scope fits the bill perfectly.  For instance, say you wanted to build a super-light mountain rifle, where you were trying to shave every single unnecessary ounce off your equipment possible.  Having spent some time in the high country chasing after elk and mulies myself, where you'll carry your rifle for miles and maybe take 1 shot the whole trip, I can appreciate every ounce saved anywhere in my equipment.  The VX-III 1.75-6 and 2.5 - 8 are excellent choices for this type of rig -- light and compact.  The Swarovski AV 3-9X36 weighs about the same as those, but is considerably more expensive.  If you're a benchrest competitor and weight restrictions and POI stability call for a fixed 36X magnification class target scope, few optics companies besides Leupold (I think only Weaver and Sightron) even offer one.  If you're a varmint hunter, Leupold offers some interesting scopes for the application that are very competitive price & feature wise to other brands.  If you want to scope a compact rifle with something that proportionally just looks "right," a huge, super long scope may be totally out of proportion on the rifle.  Leupold scopes are among some of the shortest and lightest within a given magnification range.

 

It all depends on what the intended purpose for the scope is.  No matter what, I don't think you'd be in any way handicapped with a Leupold, and I believe it will provide you with several lifetimes of good service if that's what you really want.  I just agree with others here that the competition is so good these days that sometimes a Leupold doesn't seem to offer the best value for $ spent.

Ted


Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle.
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tahqua View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 14:53

Originally posted by rootmanslim rootmanslim wrote:

Since you have this obvious fear or distate toward the mentally ill, you might want to hook up with out friend from Sweden as the Jews and the mentally ill all got the same tender care from people with his viewpoints.(aka the SS)
.

 

We have this one going on History 101 at Almost Anything Goes. Can we keep it there? This is starting to look like Glock Talk and they have moderators (very busy and good people).

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guitarman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guitarman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 16:32

Hey everyone, I assure you that I am not mentally ill.  However, Rifledude just summed up all of my feelings in a nutshell.  I do not feel that Leupold always offers the best value.  However, I do feel that for me, and my specific application for the scope, that the Leupold VX-II 4-12x40AO with Fine Duplex reticle (I feel like Ralphie from "A Christmas Story") is the best choice in its class for me.  I enjoy benchrest shooting, it will look very nice on my rifle, it will carry very well, and all in all, it's gonna rock.

 

However, if I were to look for a scope for a different rifle, I would undoubtedly very strongly consider Nikons, Burrises (as I already have for this one), etc...I don't think that I would ever buy one of Leupold's "top notch" scopes, I would gravitate more toward the Swarovskis, Shepherds (random), and the like.

 

In fact, if I were to build a rifle purely for deer, I would grab one of those Monarchs with its Nikoplex reticle and .  I do enjoy aiming at very specific targets though, just for fun.  Have you ever tried shooting insects at 100 yards or more?

 

Haha I wish I could prove to you that I'm not deranged, but I am beginning to feel more inclined to play the part.  I must also remind you all that I'm not very old, and I have nowhere near as much experience as any of you.  Anyway...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 16:41
Originally posted by guitarman guitarman wrote:

Hey everyone, I assure you that I am not mentally ill.  However, Rifledude just summed up all of my feelings in a nutshell.  I do not feel that Leupold always offers the best value.  However, I do feel that for me, and my specific application for the scope, that the Leupold VX-II 4-12x40AO with Fine Duplex reticle (I feel like Ralphie from "A Christmas Story") is the best choice in its class for me.  I enjoy benchrest shooting, it will look very nice on my rifle, it will carry very well, and all in all, it's gonna rock.

 

However, if I were to look for a scope for a different rifle, I would undoubtedly very strongly consider Nikons, Burrises (as I already have for this one), etc...I don't think that I would ever buy one of Leupold's "top notch" scopes, I would gravitate more toward the Swarovskis, Shepherds (random), and the like.

 

In fact, if I were to build a rifle purely for deer, I would grab one of those Monarchs with its Nikoplex reticle and .  I do enjoy aiming at very specific targets though, just for fun.  Have you ever tried shooting insects at 100 yards or more?

 

Haha I wish I could prove to you that I'm not deranged, but I am beginning to feel more inclined to play the part.  I must also remind you all that I'm not very old, and I have nowhere near as much experience as any of you.  Anyway...

 

Guitarman, nobody was talking about you being mentally deranged.  Read all the posts.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guitarman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 16:44
Thank you, Dolphin, I am aware.  I just thought I would clarify my mental disposition.  Lol thanx though, man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 16:55
I just read through this thread and I am trying to understand what all the noise is about.  It sound like guitarman wants to by a Leupold, so let him buy a Leupy.  If he wanted to buy something representing the best bang for the buck in terms of performance (optical and mechanical quality), the recommendation would certainly be different.

There is nothing wrong with the fact that he likes a particular finish that Leupold uses or the appearance of the scope.  I generally do not care about those parts of the scope unless the shape/size of the scope interferes with mounting.  However, to each his own.

Besides, if guitarman want to use the VX-II for benchrest type shooting, there should not be much practical difference between different scope from the optical perspective. If I understand this correctly, this type of shooting is typically done in pretty good light.  From a mechanical standpoint, make sure you have a rubber mallet with you and you should be fine.

ILya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 17:21
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

From a mechanical standpoint, make sure you have a rubber mallet with you and you should be fine.

ILya


I'm eating as I read this and a good belly laugh was needed after the last 24 hours of OT. I'll go clean my shirt off now, thanks ILya.
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ceylonc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 19:23

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I just read through this thread and I am trying to understand what all the noise is about.  It sound like guitarman wants to by a Leupold, so let him buy a Leupy.  If he wanted to buy something representing the best bang for the buck in terms of performance (optical and mechanical quality), the recommendation would certainly be different.

From a mechanical standpoint, make sure you have a rubber mallet with you and you should be fine.

ILya

 

I agree.  Part of my frustration was that we spent over 6 pages trying to persuade guitarman to make a choice when his decision had already been made.  All the rationalizations, reasoning, and experience doesn't mean squat to somebody who has already made up their mind.  Regardless, it's his bed & now he gets to sleep in it.  So long as he's happy with his decision then I'm happy for him.

 

I think brownells.com is having a sale on rubber mallets!  Maybe they'll throw one in with a set of Leupold Rifleman rings???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roy Finn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 19:34
Will be needing a set of vise grips to turn the power ring adjustment on a VX2. That is probably the biggest complaint I hear, even among the most die hard of Leupold connoisseurs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote guitarman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 20:32

I apologize to anyone if I wasted their time.  It surely was not my intent to do so!  I especially apologize to ceylonc.  I have not yet made up my mind, because it could be a couple of months before I make my purchase.  I have learned a lot from all of you, and I will keep this in mind when I make my purchase.  If the Monarch is still on sale when I decide to get the scope, then I have almost no doubt I'll get it, Nikon's are awesome (I loved my old Buckmaster).  I am also very excited to see what the "new Monarch" has to offer, and there is a very good chance I will get it, as Nikon has some nice offerings.  Without your help, I almost certainly wouldn't have considered Nikon.  Thanks, folks :-)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceylonc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 20:40
Originally posted by guitarman guitarman wrote:

I apologize to anyone if I wasted their time.  It surely was not my intent to do so!  I especially apologize to ceylonc.  I have not yet made up my mind, because it could be a couple of months before I make my purchase.  I have learned a lot from all of you, and I will keep this in mind when I make my purchase.  If the Monarch is still on sale when I decide to get the scope, then I have almost no doubt I'll get it, Nikon's are awesome (I loved my old Buckmaster).  I am also very excited to see what the "new Monarch" has to offer, and there is a very good chance I will get it, as Nikon has some nice offerings.  Without your help, I almost certainly wouldn't have considered Nikon.  Thanks, folks :-)

 

It's good to have you here!  Keep in touch & let us know what you decide to buy.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tahqua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 21:43
Guitarman, those Monarchs are selling fast. I ordered a 2-7 mat finish and ended getting a gloss this past week. I am sure the mat finishes are selling faster. Just something to think about since this a great deal on some fine optics. Or just get the Leupy and be happy.
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