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Things I Know |
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guitarman
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/09/2007 Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Acenturian, Gibson Les Pauls are overpriced for what you get, IMHO. Just kidding!
I like my Nikon, I like Burrises, and I really like Leupolds. I'm also kind of a smarta$$ sometimes lol. I don't think that Leupold ALWAYS makes the best scopes in their class, but I think that in some instances they do. I'm not going to put out any specifics because I don't want to spark a huge debate . In my opinion though, if I were to spend 1200-1500 bucks on a scope, I probably wouldn't get a Leupold. However, if I were to spend approximately 500 (which I soon will), then I would be more than willing to get a Leupold. I really like their VX-III's (personal opinion). |
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rootmanslim
Optics Professional Joined: June/04/2006 Location: Pinedale, WY Status: Offline Points: 557 |
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Actually while you were at woodstock i was covering your ass in a nasty place called south east asia.
I'll be looking forward to seeing a copy of that PHD in optics posted here. As I have said this site is all opinions. I dont have to prove Leupold is better as I have never said that. You "experts", on the other hand are always dumping on them, so the burden of proof is on you. You best hope you never get in court in a real legal debate as you obviously have no a clue on the rules of evidence or debate. |
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www.technika.nu
Optics Journeyman Joined: August/02/2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 611 |
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Things I know.
1. Most often you get what you pay for,there is often a reason why something is twice as expensive as something else.
2. Only US optics in the US makes their own lenses, so each time you buy a leupold you are sending of money to an asian country.
3. People see through an optical system diffrently, they see the coulors diffrently and that is probably why some see better in Zeiss while others see better in Swarovski.
4. Just because it's written in a well known book 40 years ago doesent mean it's true. There is a lot of wrong things printed in books, so the best thing is to both read the books and use the items to get an opinion.
5. I don't judge peoples huntingskills by their gear, that can in some cases just be used as a way to judge their technical interests. Some people love quality and is prepared to pay for it, some don't care. But the quality of the hunter and the human is detected by other things than gear.
6. There are really good hunters around in western europe as well as the rest of the world, even though many of them are using Blasers, krieghoffs and zeiss. And I am not a better hunter than them just because all my current rifles is 40 years plus and of older designs.
7. An Alaskan scope while working good for O'Connor don't work at all for the type of night/duskhunting that takes places in big parts of europe.Thus more magnification and objetice size is needed even though he didnt need it. So conclusion is that different hunting requires different gear.
8. Not all brands of scopes delivers decent scopes, even though the general quality of optics is far better than it has been before.
9. All factories have mondays and does produce a few items that never should have been sold.
10. Mostly "Makers" are just brand names that get their western name printied into an Asian or eastern europe scope. I don't mind them selling asian or eastern europe scopes, but it makes things weird beacuse there is not much value in the name anymore. The name of those are no longer a quality controll.
Regards Technika Edited by www.technika.nu |
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guitarman
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/09/2007 Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Well spoken, technika.
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rootmanslim
Optics Professional Joined: June/04/2006 Location: Pinedale, WY Status: Offline Points: 557 |
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Funny, the big story in Rifle a few months back said the only components from Asia used by Leupold were in the Rifleman Line.
You're right about old books not always being accurate... now take Mein Kampf...... You're right we don't hunt non varmint game at night, don't have beaters to drive the game, don't run down elk (red deer) with dogs and hunting is not the almost exclusive province of the super rich. When ANYBODY on this site produces a book as valuable as those by the authors I cited, I'll be the first to buy a copy. 40 years does not change the laws of ballistics, how game operates when really wild, required skills or hunting ethics. The fact that some seem to think they should change is what is sad. "Boy, get out my Blaser 300 WSM with the 6-24 SWARO, load up the ATV, get out the hounds and we'll go up to the fenced preserve and shoot something tonight." OH BOY! |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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The Leupold folks were at a recent show I attended and I stopped by their booth. I personally heard one of the Leupold reps say Leupold sources their glass from both Asia and Europe, but when questioned further about where, the reply was "we do not disclose that information." |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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pyro6999
Optics Retard OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
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that tells me that if you buy anything less than a vxIII your getting asian glass saving the good stuff for the vxL's |
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Dogger
Optics Jedi Master Joined: January/02/2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 8904 |
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Need clarification on the glass question - are we talking about sourcing the glass blanks or the ground lenses? If ground lenses does that include the coatings? |
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God save the Empire!
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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Yes, all their glass (and coatings) is outsourced from PR firms. Last info was Japan and Korea. Even Zeiss states that they have outsourced glass from Japan.
Edited by Roy Finn |
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thinkingman
Optics Apprentice Joined: January/13/2006 Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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Acenturian wrote:
Look I don't think a person who buys a Leupold product is going to be ill served and that they ought to run out and throw the thing in the garbage. Quite the opposite, they still make a fine product a bit over priced in my opinion for what you get. On the other hand they are American made and they have to pay the American worker so production cost can be a factor. On the other hand Zeiss is able to build the Conquest line here and do it for a very fair price so I believe Leupold should and can lower their prices a bit. But then again why should they? They still have an American shooting public out there that still thinks it's 1963 and Leupold is the only scope worth having on a gun. As long as that "Golen ring Envy" still exists they can still charge more for a scope.
This is a well written perspective on 'The Great Leupold Controversy'. There are some really stubborn people who feel a personal affinity for the Leupold name. I just don't get it. I do see it in cars, Toyota being the best example. There are alot of people who justify overpaying for the Toyota name by saying they are superior cars or trucks. I can tell you that I've owned them all (OK, not all but enough to form an informed opinion) and the Toyota legend is a myth. An expensive one. But enough people have been brainwashed to keep the company going. The stories I love by the defenders are 'when my Leupold (4runner) had a major failure, they took good care of me' Why would you buy from a company that has had to support their products so much? I hear very little about the customer service at Burris...or Swaro, ....Or Leica. Maybe not so many claims for products failing? Just a thought. PS....re Toyota, before the flames begin, look at the failure rate of the 3.0l v-6 and the sludge-related failures of the 2.4l I-4. These are MAJOR issues. My Toyota has had more new car problems than all of the Jeep, Dodge and VW cars I've owned, combined. |
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koshkin
MODERATOR Dark Lord of Optics Joined: June/15/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13181 |
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I do not know where glass for VX-7 comes from. All other Leupold glass used in rifle scopes comes from either Japan or Korea. When I say glass, in this case that means ground, polished and coated lenses. ILya |
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Acenturian
Optics Journeyman Joined: September/07/2004 Status: Offline Points: 543 |
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Interesting point. I had an 1982 Toyota Pickup back in the late 80's and the thing was great..you couldn't kill the thing pretty much bullet proof. Plus the overall design was pretty good for it's time. Fast forward, I had a newer Toyota pickup and I felt that the overall quality and attention to little details was lost or had somewhat deminished over the years.
My wife's family has always been a Nissan family and they had an older small Nissan pickup with 275,000 + on it and it ran like a top. Now , I love my Titan and while I found other trucks I liked the look of better in the half ton catagory I like some of the design features (power and transmision) of the Titan however, quality is good but I highly doubt that it will go 275,000 like the older truck.
Unfortunitly we live in a global economy I know the governement preaches that is such a wonderful thing I won't get into that since this is not a politcal forum. I find it interesting the at Zeiss and some of the others have out sourced their glass to Japan, makes me wonder if sometime in the near future what the point will be to pay for the extra amount of cash over say top Japanese brands.
Guitarman: A Les Paul may be over priced but they do look cool:)
Root: I will always pay respect to a veteran, my father was in Vietnam in the mid 60's and I was raised with a sense of respect to those who serve so since many Americans forget to say it...thankyou for your service to this great nation.
In closing I think that there will always be the "Great Leupold Debate". I will never say that they make a poor qulaity product because I don't believe that to be true. Leupold still makes a fine scope. Personally, for me optics are very subjective and what looks good to one may not another. What I personally have found with the scopes that Leupold makes is that they don't offer any real advantage (meaning optical clarity, brightness, contrast) over the compition and usually comparing same class to same class scopes they cost more. Like I said before, they do have a great reputation for customer service and they do hold their value. Other than that I see no reason to spend extra money of the same level of performance or even less performance.
Happy Shooting AC
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If You're In A Fair Fight, You Didn't Plan It Properly
- Anonymous |
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SwattedOut
Optics GrassHopper Joined: October/30/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 54 |
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Nothing from nothing,but......you do realize that the Japenese can say, "Our vehicles were primo until we outsourced and opened plants in North America". AND, they would be right. |
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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That is sad, but true. I look at the quality of American pick-up trucks and then say the Tundra or Titan and I really have to question my loyalty to buy American vs. common sense and durability.
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rootmanslim
Optics Professional Joined: June/04/2006 Location: Pinedale, WY Status: Offline Points: 557 |
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Well Roy bring around your rice rocket pickup and hook it up to my 4 horse slant and we'll take a few 100 mile ride down some wonderful USFS dirt roads in WY from 7-10,000 feet. then we'll call the wrecker. Cummins rules and that's a fact. How many of those rice rockets go 500,000 miles w/o engine work. Heck there is one in the TDR club that has done 1,000,000 miles pulling big boat trailers and never had the head off.
I have written Leupold and posed the Asia glass question. I'll see what they say rather than tits over the back fence rumors. AND Kosh: I was not the one "overhearing the Leupold rep" as your post states!Apology accepted. |
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Roy Finn
MODERATOR Steiner Junkie Joined: April/05/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4856 |
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This was from a member whose father is a Leupold employee:
"Here is the low down that my father gave me on the phone. I didnt have to wait because he ended up calling to see how the dog was doing....I let him know I was doing OK also .
Leupold has 2 suppliers for the glass they use in all of their scopes. Japan and Korea are where the suppliers are located. He told me that Leupold has attempted to find a US glass supplier, however the quality of the glass is below the quality they are getting from the suppliers overseas. Every other part of the scopes (all lines), are produced in the US. Every line of Leupold scope is assembled and packaged in their plant in Beaverton, OR.
So in short, Leupold scopes (all lines) are made in the US and all parts (besides glass) are supplied from US companies. He also told me that having the 2 suppliers of glass has something to do with the different types of coatings used on them. So I have no idea if they use one type in one line and another type in another line.
My opinion, however this is just my opinion, is that they use the better of the 2 glass suppliers for the higher end scopes and the other for the lower end scope. They could also use one supplier for scopes and the other supplier for the other products they offer. Either way, I dont think that you can have a lower end product when they offer a lifetime warranty like Leupold does on all of thier products. Either way, I would use any product line offered from Leupold.
Hope this helps!" Edited by Roy Finn |
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www.technika.nu
Optics Journeyman Joined: August/02/2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 611 |
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I don't have a problem with that either Leupold or Zeiss is buying glass or other components from Asia. I just find it hillarius, cause there is someone here that is screaming high about that it's close to antiamerican to buy anyting else than US produced items.......... Noone meantioned and nooone forgotten.............
Regards Technika |
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RifleDude
MODERATOR EVIL OPPRESSOR Joined: October/13/2006 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 16337 |
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Slim, look again at Koshkins post. He attached a quote from me, quoting you, clearly showing that statement came from me. He owes you no apology. I stand by the accuracy of what I said. Leupold has had booths at several shows in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area that I attend every year and and they don't hide the fact they get their lenses from suppliers in Asia. Their reps have told me that personally on at least 2 other occasions. The only new revelation from the conversation I overheard at the most recent show (Dallas Safari Club show) was that they also get lenses from Europe as well. What's the big deal? The majority of all other optics manufacturers do as well. |
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Ted
Money can't buy happiness... but it's much more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than on a bicycle. |
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alex0902957
Optics GrassHopper Joined: June/08/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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TUNDRA BUILD IN USA |
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LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!!!
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jonbravado
Optics Master Joined: October/05/2006 Status: Offline Points: 1131 |
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well, you do get what you pay for most of the time.
i have gibson and fender guitars. i also have washburn and epiphone guitars. i have high end euro scopes too. but i have tasco, nikon, and simmons scopes too. it's all relative and independent when you are assessing value vs american/foreign.
i am not a huge fan of leupold by any stretch of imagination. 10 years ago, they were the best that me or my pals had. they were the standard. times have changed. and i think other companies are leaving leupold in the dust. is this because it's an 'american made' product, even though the glass comes from asia? and the price for american labor is exponentially more expensive? probably so.
i think it really doesn't matter where the end product comes from when you look at quality. you can get topnotch optics from asian, european, AND american companies.
i would love nothing more than to buy only american products. i have massive pride for our country and our economy. truth of the matter is: i can't afford to buy only american goods. our economy is so screwed and we are totally dependent of foreign goods/monies. it's sad but true. and we (me included) are frickin spoiled to be able to buy a great foreign product for half the cost of a simliar american product. and don't get me started on how lazy the american work force has become.......our children are born and raised with hardly a work ethic to share between them, nowadays. it's sad.
if anyone has an affordable way to buy only american......sign me up.
J
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